Re: Field Marshal Games Pieces Project Discussion thread

[ithkrall]

@tin_snips:

personally i like the 88mm flak piece for german arty. i mean, it was used in this role  :-P

BUT, if most people want a change, then stick with the iconic and make it a pak 40

It was used in an anti-tank role, not a convention artillery “Shell them till the go deaf, then shell them some more” kind of way. A pak 40 is also an anti tank gun and not an artillery piece.

I just find it an odd selection for an artillery piece, and would prefer to see an actual piece of German artillery instead.

Plus a Hummel or Wespe model would be Hawt.

http://www.hpwt.de/2Weltkrieg/Hummel.jpg
http://www.figuren-modellbau.de/fahrzeuge/matchbox-40077-wespe-panzer-artillerie.jpg

Although self propelled artillery models may confuse people who aren’t familiar with WW2 machinery.

[Admiral_Thrawn]

This is very exciting! I would be in for a set of these!

[Imperious Leader]

If i was FMG id sell the piece sets individually by nation for about $20 each and this would include possible dice and a sheet of tokens for technology so you place the token by your side or on the tech chart so its clear which ones you got.

I suppose its also fine to sell all nations in one large box for $60 as well.

but for $20 they will make more money because some people want more units for a specific nation and wont buy the whole set. Plus your now catering to all sorts of wargamers who will use these for other games and they may only want a few nations rather than 6.

[Black Fox]

but for $20 they will make more money because some people want more units for a specific nation and wont buy the whole set. Plus your now catering to all sorts of wargamers who will use these for other games and they may only want a few nations rather than 6.

I actually suggested something similar to this on the Harris forum.  I completely agree with IL on this.  People are likely to buy more at $20 than $60.  But I think both should be offered.  One large basic set and then a bunch of specialized set and the basic set broken down into sections.

It (88mm) was used in an anti-tank role, not a convention artillery “Shell them till the go deaf, then shell them some more” kind of way. A pak 40 is also an anti tank gun and not an artillery piece.

The 88mm was also used in the artillery role as well even though it was not designed for it.  Personally I think the 88mm is just fine as an artillery piece.  It was best all around gun the Germans had.

I do agree with tin snip that the Hummel and Wespe would be more accurate. However, I think they would create confusion because they are mounted on tank bodies.  What ever artillery pieces are chosen, it should be a nonmotorized version.

[ithkrall]

@Black:

The 88mm was also used in the artillery role as well even though it was not designed for it.  Personally I think the 88mm is just fine as an artillery piece.  It was best all around gun the Germans had.

I do agree with “Ithkrall” that the Hummel and Wespe would be more accurate. However, I think they would create confusion because they are mounted on tank bodies.  What ever artillery pieces are chosen, it should be a nonmotorized version.

Fixed, as i made that suggestion. I also pointed out that motorized artillery would possibly confuse people.

I think my issue with the 88mm flak is also to do with it being a flak gun. If there were no “AA gun” models in the game, id agree. Personally, I’d love national AA gun models and have the 88mm there (I think a few people would like say 4-6 AA models per nation of your very own, and only dipping into the generic pool if you need too).

It just doesn’t look right on the board to my eyes (and the models for the 88mm in AA50 are not fun to paint)

[slm68430]

I would pre order 2 sets and I have a few friends that would most likely order sets also.

[FieldMarshalGames]

Thank you for all these suggestions and the support!

Just wanted to let you know that I am leaving on vacation for a week, BUT I will be back to answer all your questions.  I have several people working on the project and I will report their progress when I get back.  Please just ask your friends to check out this thread and take the poll so we can gauge the overall interest in this.

If all goes well we will have the pre-order set up within a week and get this thing moving!

[Shakespeare]

Vacation???!!!  8-)

[Adlertag]

No, no , no, this is not happening ? I need this pieces now !

[FieldMarshalGames]

Regardless of my vacation…  the project is moving forward.  At this point it is moving on its own.  I just will not be here for a week to hang out and chat about it with you guys. :-)

[AG124]

Ah, enjoy your vacation then; you certainly deserve it. 8-) And when you get back, we shall be waiting to hear of your latest progress with the new unit set (or at least to hear of any information with which you can provide us at that time). Can’t wait for the next progess report.

[Imperious Leader]

Also, I have a new idea:

I want all these new pieces to be totally different pieces from AA. Twofold.

First: Avalon Hill already made the stuka and Me-109, but the stuka looks horrible

so if you have the German plane as the JU-87 Stuka or Fw-190 you create a new piece and also create the utility of having a new plane that people can use  rather than have yet another Me-109… By having a new unit to make these pieces really viable for all sorts of ideas.

The German Battleship should be the Graf Spee or Scharnhorst because we already got the Bismarck

The Japanese BB should be Kongo Class, so people can make the Yamato into a 5-5 battleship

The American BB should be the Lexington

The American fighter should be the MUstang

The German Artillery should be a PAK

The German tank should be Panzer IV or Tiger 2 or King tiger

etc… no sculpt should be an AH sculpt because your making something new and bold.

Also, the HQ unit should be a concrete bunker with a pole on top so people can add a national flag. I assume the pole could be seperate and you glue it in or just stick in the hole on top.

http://warandgame.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/wolfslair.jpg

if you go with a figure then id use one mold for all 6 leaders of basically a general pointing in the distance. You don’t need a unique general for all 6 nations, so make the figure universal.

also here is a picture of a flak tower… this could be the new AA gun sculpt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flak_tower

[d142]

are there plan’s for france and poland forces,
i think that a set of sculpts of 1 infantry, 1 artillery, 1 armor, 1 fighter, 1 aircraft carrier, 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer, 1 transport for france, and 1 infantry, 1 artillery, 1 armor, 1 fighter, 1 destroyer, 1 transport for poland,
for later turns if france and poland are in play, the sculpts other national sculpts could be used for the larger ships and submarines,

france

15 infantry
7 artillery
7 armor
5 fighter
3 aircraft carrier
3 cruiser
5 destroyer
5 transport

poland

15 infantry
7 artillery
7 armor
5 fighter
5 destroyer
5 transport

[crsluggo]

@Imperious:

Also, I have a new idea:

I want all these new pieces to be totally different pieces from AA. Twofold.

First: Avalon Hill already made the stuka and Me-109, but the stuka looks horrible

so if you have the German plane as the JU-87 Stuka or Fw-190 you create a new piece and also create the utility of having a new plane that people can use  rather than have yet another Me-109… By having a new unit to make these pieces really viable for all sorts of ideas.

The German Battleship should be the Graf Spee or Scharnhorst because we already got the Bismarck

The Japanese BB should be Kongo Class, so people can make the Yamato into a 5-5 battleship

The American BB should be the Lexington

The American fighter should be the MUstang

The German Artillery should be a PAK

The German tank should be Panzer IV or Tiger 2 or King tiger

etc… no sculpt should be an AH sculpt because your making something new and bold.

I agree with IL on most of these modifications & I have a few to add myself.

British Tank: Crusader or Churchill
British Bomber: Avro Lancaster
British Battleship: Nelson

American Tank: M3 Grant
American Artillery: M2 155mm “Long Tom” cannon
American Bomber: B-29 Superfortress
American Aircraft Carrier: Essex Class ships
American Submarine: Gato Class ships

German Tank: Pz. IV D (with short barrel 75mm gun)
German Artillery: 88mm (with anti-tank shield)
German Bomber: Heinkel 111

Also, will the pieces match the colors of the AH models?

[d142]

i would rather the king tiger tank,
i have a set of panzer IV from axis and allies revised

[crsluggo]

The German Tank in all of the newer A&A games is the Panther, not the Panzer IV

[AG124]

Yes, the German tank mold from all A&A editions from Revised onwards is the Panther (although I am not sure what sub variant). There are differences in the molds (see Boardgamegeek for comparison pictures) but all of them are various Panthers.

I agree to a certain degree with Imperious Leader regarding unique molds; many of us are going to retain the original pieces, and could use different molds for different house rules (or at the very least, we could enjoy a variety of molds simply for aesthetic value). However, some people may prefer to replace their old units altogether, and some of the original molds are hideously ugly and inaccurate (the German Admiral Hipper class CA and US Iowa class BB come to mind). Also, some units are so representative of their type and nation, it feels inappropriate to leave them out. The US Gato class submarine (or ‘Ray Class’ according to AAR…sigh…) comes to mind, but most US subs would look very similar at this scale anyway. Bearing, all of this in mind, I think I would settle for (in some cases, there are multiple units I think would be OK):

US:

• CV - Essex Class.
• [CVE - Bogue Class].
• BB - South Dakota Class or Iowa Class.
• CA - Baltimore Class.
• DD - Fletcher Class.
• SS - Gato Class.
• AK - Liberty or Victory Class.
• Fighter - Wildcat, Hellcat, Mustang, or Corsair (all are very iconic and well known).
• [Dive Bomber] - Dauntless or Helldiver.
• Heavy Bomber - B-17 or B-29.
• Tank - M4A3 or M4A4 Sherman (the current Sherman appears to be an M4A1). Also, I would like to note (in repsonse to an earlier post) that the US M3’s were called Lee, and not Grant, the latter being the UK lend-lease name for them.
• Artillery - M8 Howitzer would be OK (not the SP version though).
• Half-Track - M3 Half Track.

UK:

• CV - Illustrious Class (most other UK CV’s were one-offs, and most were sunk by the game’s start date).
• [CVE - Share US Bogue mold, or use Collossus Class].
• BB - King George V Class.
• CA/CL - Southampton Class or County Class.
• DD - Tribal Class.
• SS - T Class.
• AK - North Sands Class.
• Fighter - mid-war Spitfire or Hurricane.
• [Dive Bomber] - Barracuda.
• Heavy Bomber - Lancaster or Halifax.
• Tank - Churchill IV (most Churchills would look the same at this scale anyway).
• Artillery - I’ll let someone else choose a UK artillery piece.
• Half Track - Bren Carrier.

USSR:

• CV - Project 72.
• [CVL - “Komsomolets” - 1920s design].
• BB - Soyuz Class.
• CA - Kirov/Maxim Gorkij Class.
• DD - Type 7.
• SS - S-IX.
• AK - US Liberty Class, I guess.
• Fighter - Any Mig or Yak model.
• [Dive Bomber - IL-2, although the IL-2 was actually a ground-strike aircraft and not a true bomber].
• Heavy Bomber - PE-3.
• Tank - T-34/76, or if everyone else wants something different, T-34/85 or KV-1.
• Artillery - Again, some else can choose an appropriate piece here.
• Half Track - Either a lend-lease M3, or choose any original Soviet halftrack (I can’t think of one right now and don’t have time to look one up, but they did exist).

Germany:

• CV - Graf Zeppelin.
  -[CVL - Seydlitz].
• BB - Bismarck or Scharnhorst Class (not the Deutchland class though, as they were little more than 11" CA’s and were later classified as such anyway).
• CA - Hipper Class (I hate the current mold).
• DD - Z-36 Class (again, I hate the current mold).
• SS - Type IXC.
• AK - I do not have a preference for a German transport, but I do want a unique German mold here.
• Fighter - FW-190 would be fine.
• [Dive Bomber] - JU87B Stuka.
• Heavy Bomber - HE 111.
• Tank - Panzer IV F2/G/H, or Tiger I (Panther Ausf. D seems too early and limited production for me, and Tiger II/King Tiger seems too much of a late war tank).
• Artillery - A 7.6mm artillery piece would be OK.
• Half Track - Sd Kfz 251.

Italy:

• CV - Aquila.
  -[CVL - Sparviero].
• BB - Littorio Class.
• CA - Zara Class.
• DD - Navigatori Class.
• SS - Marconi Class.
• AK - Any, but must be unique.
• Fighter - C202 Folgore.
• [Dive-Bomber] - Share Stuka mold.
• Heavy Bomber - SM79 Sparviero
• Tank - either M11/39 or M13/40.
• Artillery - Don’t have a preference for Italian artillery.
• Half Track - Not too familiar with Italian halftracks, so someone else can make a suggestion here.

Japan:

• CV - Shokaku Class
  -[CVL - Zuiho Class]
• BB - Nagato Class, or Kongo Class.
• CA - Mogami Class, or Tone Class.
• DD - Kagero Class.
• SS - Type B1.
• AK - “Standard Merchant;” mass-produced freighter with aft engines.
• Fighter - A6M2 Zero
• [Dive Bomber - D3A Val, or B5N2 Kate]
• Heavy Bomber - G3M Nell
• Tank - Type 97 Chi-Ha
• Artillery - 70mm field artillery.
• Half Track - Type 1 Ho-Ha.

[tin_snips]

if FMG’s goal is to replace all of the original pieces for better quality ones, then the new molds should be based on common tanks, planes, etc from each nation. if it’s to build upon, then new molds different from the originals would obviously be the key

so is the goal to replace, or to add?

[Imperious Leader]

It can do both. example:

Germany

Tank: Panzer III or King Tiger
Artillery: Pak 36
Fighter: New decent Stuka or FW-190
Bomber: Heinkel
Submarine: Type VII
Battleship: Scharnhorst or Hipper class
Cruiser:Scharnhorst or Hipper class
Destroyer: Zerstörer 1936A “Narvik”

so basically you rebuilt the units with new iconic pieces to either replace the existing pieces with these ( which was the intention) or even better you got a new line of pieces so you can build an entire line of new types of pieces. It would be like how some people use the old MB AA pieces for various extra units.

The key is the color must match exactly and the size of each piece must be in the same proportion as in AA50. So you could have two kinds of German battleship if you wanted to and have it with different costs or capabilities or just use it to replace the old unit. This gives maximum utility from the value of getting pieces in the first place.

[Adlertag]

As usual I agree with IL