Germany spent a lot of money on synthetic oil-it wouldn’t have cost as much to expoilt naturally occurring oil fields, and those resources could have gone to producing more equipment (which the new massive oil fields, in conjunction with Romania’s could fuel). Germany might even have been able to the give the Italian navy more oil, which would help operations in the Mediterranean. Japan would be able to not attack the Western Allies, which would allow them to destroy China more easily, with all of Japan’s resources aimed at it, with a fully fuelled army and navy. Perhaps Japan, without a massive naval war, could even invest more in tanks and mechanized infantry which would be fully fueled, and would make a possible invasion of the Soviet Union much easier. Supply problems in China and the Soviet Union would have been not as bad. Perhaps several hundred more tanks and mechanized infantry at the Battle Of Moscow, completely fuelled, might have been decisive-and if that wasn’t enough, there would have been more casualties, which would set the stage for a renewed German offensive against Moscow without the need to take Soviet oil. Bombing the oil fieleds might have been sufficent enough to allow Germany to take Moscow in 1942. This would have been coupled with Japanese pressure on the Soviet Union. It would still be close, but the Axis may have won on the Eastern Front. After that, Germany can dedicate all their resources for submarine warfare and fighters to protect the oil fields, and the fighter force would still have performed well, as there would not be a loss of oil, which resulted in training cuts. All of this, with Vichy France and Spain joining the Axis, would have created a crisis in the Mediterranean, especially now that Germany could possibly send an entire panzer army to North Africa, and will have enormous amounts to men on the Atlantic Wall. If China falls, then altogether, the Axis would have won.
Would the Allies lost if the USSR joined the Axis
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The bed was too small for Hitler and Stalin both.
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IN the event that the Soviets and Germany and Japan and Italy teamed up to carve the world…. and Japan never attacks the Pacific ( stays out of indo-china and holds china and does not commit atrocities–e.g. Nanking), then UK would fall before USA comes in the picture and fights a losing battle alone and eventually the American public grows tired of FDR and sends him and his chair packing. The American people respond only to direct threats/attacks made upon its property. You have to rub our noses and get us dirty before we do something. IN that time America wanted no part of another European war. Lend lease aid to UK would not have helped them against a 20 million man army. The remaining nations would have just accepted the new order in Europe. Eventually after decades Russians and Germans would be fighting over something and perhaps then a realistic effort against Germany might have made sence.
But Hitler and Stalin were incompatible, after Stalin dies in 1956, Hitler would have tested the new Soviet regime with some provocation, as the Soviets tested Kennedy in 1962. Germany would have entered the space race long before anybody and the occupation of most of talented Europe would have given them enough skills to lead us in overall technological advancement.
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I honestly don’t believe we would have entered the war if it weren’t for pearl harbor.The majority of American citzens were against being pulled into another war in Europe, and alot still held pro-german or anti-UK sentiments.
@Imperious:
The American people respond only to direct threats/attacks made upon its property. You have to rub our noses and get us dirty before we do something. IN that time America wanted no part of another European war.
I agree with IL, America needed to be pushed before we push back.
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yah, if pearl harobr had not been attacked FDR would have had to do some serious politic’n to get the US off it’s ass.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDRa9I-NwDY
this illustrates the point better.
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lols
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haha…what happened to the polish boy…he left his kilbasa?
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That little Hilter is great. It proves your point IL. :lol: :-D
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im not really sure…i do think that if Stalin had remained on Hitler’s side and BARBAROSSA was used…i think Germany might have held on to Europe a bit longer…yes Germany would not have had to fight on two fronts and yes it would have been more of a bloodier battle at D-day…but the real question is…after the attack on Pearl and the US declaration on Japan…would Hitler would still have declared war on the USA with Stalin backing him up? Maybe…but even Stalin knew how strong US production could get…
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The Allies would have lost. Hitler’s turning on Russia at the time and place he did was one of the biggest reasons his thousand year Reich failed when it did. I am sure most people on these forums have tried out the USSR neutral scenario. Just with them neutral the game becomes much more difficult.
FDR was playing for time prior to Pearl Harbor. He had already comment the US to a virtual state of war in the Atlantic and had sent Pacific naval units over to the Atlantic already. Maybe the atom bomb could have still shifted the balance. But the allies weren’t the only ones working on technology. Conflict with Japan was coming, their preemptive strike on Pearl Harbor brought the USA in too early.
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