Analytical Help

[Butcher]

It’s too late for me to look at all of the games. As Corbeau said, you must protect your attacking pieces. I think a good idea is to build up an infantry base first, and then add attacking pieces. Attacking pieces can move faster than infantry (except artillery), so you will have less problems with exposed tanks if the infantry have a head start.

[rockrobinoff]

Axis and Allies is a very committal game, meaning once you start down a road it generally means that even if you picked the wrong path you have to see it through.

The G1 build is an excellent example of this. If you build navy on your first turn, it basically means you are playing to only contain Russia - to trade effectively and only allow it to grow so large. Germany is ‘turtling’ against the UK, and playing a delaying game in hopes of surviving long enough to be rescued by Japan. The same can be said of G1 air buy.

If G1 is 9 inf + 1 art following up on G2 with a bunch of tanks is natural. Germany is playing to take Russia down on turn Four or Five. In this scenario, Germany may be forced into trading France - though not always, and you are doing very well indeed if you are putting the screws to Russia and keeping the UK out of France. A G1 tank build followed up by more tanks is possible as well.

The point of all this is you need to be consistent, and to avoid any kind of piecemeal strat. If you are going to turtle against the UK, sink as much navy as possible and build a hugely strong navy. If you are going to take down Russia, freaking well play maximum against Russia.

I don’t get these ‘half way’ builds of a few tanks and a few inf. Exactly what does that achieve?

[bongaroo]

@rockrobinoff:

I don’t get these ‘half way’ builds of a few tanks and a few inf. Exactly what does that achieve?

Infantry to do the dieing, armour to do the killing usually.

[rockrobinoff]

@bongaroo:

Infantry to do the dieing, armour to do the killing usually.

Armour moves twice as fast toward Russia than infantry do, so if you buy your inf on G1, then move your inf on G2 and buy armor, the armor build and the Inf build will reach the same spot on G3. Maximum effectiveness. Buying a few of each is piecemeal.

[bugoo]

Ok i’m looking at game 8 and see a few mistakes.

R1
Do NOT abandon Karelia!  G had 4 inf, 1 art, 3 arm and a bunch of planes in range.  Russia could have had a stack of 11 inf, 1 art, 1 arm plus 2 uk figs there.  You gave germany free money without them even having to work for it.  If you had to do an attack you should have struck Baltic States.

UK1
Purchase: Not enough transports, battleship is very wasteful as UK.  You knew you had 2 DD+1 CA on the map, giving you great odds against his subs, plus he only has 2 fig 1 bomb in range of your navy.  A carrier (14), 2 transports (28), and 1 DD if truely worried (36) would be enough cover for your fleet, with 7 remaining for next turn, or a sub, or whatever.  In the pacific you should have sent both your DD and transport with units from AUS loaded onto it toward the atlantic.  J is getting India turn 2 anyway for the NO and has enough units to take AUS within range anyway, save them to fight another day.

US1
Purchase: CAs suck, they don’t defend worth crap for what you spend, and there bombard is of marginal use, esp for the US. Also, you have 2 transports with nothing to load into one of them.  Also, while I can see your going KGF, that Jap carrier in SZ 51 is a threat and just asking to be destroyed, while the DD is doing nothing.  You can reach that carrier with up to 3 figs and 1 bomb, and I would have hit it, maybe with just 2 fig and 1 bomb though so your carrier doesn’t have to pick 'em up.  Lastly, 1 US bomber or 2 a turn is the quickest, and easiest way to inflict damage on Europe.  And remember, they help make your drop threat even bigger.  I would scrap the CA and 1 trans for 1 bomb and 1 arm.

End of turn 1
I can see what MR green is trying to do.  He is going to push hard into russia with G, probably with J as well, and Italy is going to defend France and harrass allied fleets.  I know  your going KGF, but, I’m not seeing your overall plan.  Is it a shuck to Russia?  Hit Africa and threaten Italy?  I’m not seeing an overall strategic focus in your actions.

R2
Purchase: He has a mountain of inf comming at you, and a huge can opener threat, this is a good time for a large inf purchase, a fig if you really want more punch.  Also, you still handing him Karelia, WHY?  You could have hit kar with 6 inf, 1 art, and 2 arm vs 3 inf, 1 art, 3 arm, 1 fig.  You have a good shot at winning that and the UK can back you up as he only has 1 art, 3 arm that can reach next turn.  You absolutely must fight for Karelia when going KGF or germany makes too much money.  Also, you spread out all your units into 3 territories to block the can opener, but you are going to loose those units to a german attack that will not cost the germans that many units because they have the air power and can focus all there units into a few of yours.  This was a turn to hang out in Cauc and Moscow and wait for the germans to commit to a direction.  In the pacific you should have taken man with only 1 inf, and moved the other 6 back to Stanov as Japan is going to crush them and open your back door without it costing them in any other fight.  They have enough transports.  Also, you should have held in china in Chi and made a stand there.  Those two advances will cost you many units, without costing Japan much.

I’m going to stop there, but here is my chunk of advice, pick a plan, stick with it.  Decide what you are going to achieve with each purchase, and each attack, and what it will cost you, before doing it.  Ensure each move puts you closer to your goal, whatever it may be.  For example:

I’m going to do a KGF.  To help with russia I am going to kill as many german units as possible, and prevent them from gaining as much money as possible. To achive this I will use large stacks of inf backed up with a handful of planes to trade territories.  I am also going to keep them out of Karelia.  With the UK i’m going to take territory away from germany (norway, finland) and help hold northern europe with russia (landings in Karelia, Poland, etc).  With the US i’m going to pummel them with SBRs, and take Africa and threaten Italy so they do not help Germany.

So, with this plan, on R1 I purchase 5 inf, 1 arm, 1 fig.  I stack Karelia with as many units as possible, along with 2 purchase inf.  I put 2 inf into each persia and Ching, and begin pulling the red army back from Siberia.  Most likely I do no attacks, but I place my arm, fig, and my other arm onto Cauc.  On UK1 I purchase 1 IC, 2 Trannies, 1 DD, and bank the rest.  I land my 2 figs on Karelia to help it hold.  I pull out of India and Australia, and do what I can in Africa.  I rally my fleet in SZ 2 so i can drop into Karelia with 3 transports next turn if needed.  On US1 I purchase 2 bombers and 3 armor.  I place it all in LA.  I pull the AC/DD back, move my atlantic fleet to SZ 1, put my 2 figs on the UK carrier, and move my 2 bombs into London.

Each action I did puts me closer to my goal, and has a good side effect.  The R1 purchase give me plenty of defense, and allows me to start trading territories on R2.  Also, if I really want I can hit Trans-Jordan with 2 inf, 2 arm, 1 fig, or if the opportunity arose for an India IC to back it up.  Yes Germany may win in Karelia on turn 2, but then the UK will destroy her stack of units giving the russians a large unit advantage.  The UK fleet can hit any target it wants in force turn 2, and if I need more defensive ships it can move to SZ 6 and have more built into it.  Also, the Germans will have to move units into france on G2 or loose it (Hopefully).  With the US on turn 2 I can build my navy and begin my shuck into africa on turn 3, also, the bombers keep japan honest when they try to take my 2nd NO away on turn 2, and help pummel G/I incomes later on the game, and make my threat of landing in force even stronger.  Also, with my arm shuck starting in LA it is harder for japan to take it.  Lastly, if the UK move to drop in Karelia my US transport can take norway, or it can move toward Africa.

[bongaroo]

@bugoo:

Ok i’m looking at game 8 and see a few mistakes.

R1
Do NOT abandon Karelia!  G had 4 inf, 1 art, 3 arm and a bunch of planes in range.  Russia could have had a stack of 11 inf, 1 art, 1 arm plus 2 uk figs there.  You gave germany free money without them even having to work for it.  If you had to do an attack you should have struck Baltic States.

So I loose the fleet you suggest to not spend as much $ on?  If those fighters are in KAR they sure as heck aren’t keeping a fleet above the waters, right?

If Germany wants it they can take KAR on G2and If I stack all my defense there I just end up with nothing to trade territories with.

[Crossover]

Hi Bongaroo,

I only checked the first game, but i got some information for you:

1. maybe you did not see that Russian sub attack against the cruiser, but to move the cruiser + the transport to fight that lone destroyer is a mistake imo. Leave the cruiser + transport where they are and transport two units from Germany to assist the Baltic States attack.

attack the destroyer with 1 sub + 1-2 fighters

2. don’t land the attacking fighter in France, land in Norway

3. Land all other planes that way, that you can destroy any new build British fleet, if it’s too weak

Some Examples:

1 bomber + 4 fighters vs 1 BB + 1 DD + 1 AC + 2 Fighters:

Pathetic 3,8 % that you win with 1 unit left and 7,4% that all units are killed (about 11% overall), but 89% of losing with at least the BB surviving.

Only one Bomber more for Germany:

2 bombers + 4 fighters vs 1 BB + 1 DD + 1 AC + 2 Fighters:

64% of WINNING with at least one unit left, 19% of clearing (about 83% overall) and only 17% of losing.

What a difference ! Buy 1 Bomber/round as Germany if you see UK + US are going against you as long it makes sense, then stop and buy other units, maybe inf + tanks.  –> see 8 )

4. If UK buys heavy fleet, as they did in that game it’s good news for the Axis:
   You Know, that UK is mainly focusing on Germany/Italy and may help out Russia when in trouble (UK fighters can Reach Moscow in 1 turn starting in London). They did not buy any IC in SA, India or Australia. Good news for Japan ! That makes it easier for Germany to play, as Allies already revealed their plans.

5. Consider buying an IC as Japan and place it either Manchuria or FIC. This IC is useful in any case, it’s good if UK builds an India IC, it’s perfect if UK + US play in Europe and even when US is playing 100% in the Pacific an IC on the Asian mainland is very strong (as your transport otherwise need constantly protection)

6. NEVER attack with 1 Fighter vs 1 DD + Transport - far too risky. Use 2 Fighters. Better delay one or two attacks against China, they can wait. Killing all US and UK fleets is more important.

If you see round 1 a 100% US Atlantic buy, Japan has to play very aggressive, buy 2 ICs (FIC and Manchuria), take all your fleet, conquer Australia + Hawaii + another US island (kill one of US and UK bonus and get one yourself for Hawaii), then head with your fleet directly towards India and Egypt and help in Europe

7. Anyway, you got good dice rolls as Germany and Japan, but screwed up Axis play in Italy 1. The Ukraine attack was too weak and losing a plane as Italy when taking back France is out of question. Buy a second fighter as Italy in round 1 and mass your troops in Italy, so you are strong enough for another recapture of France in R2. If UKs fleet is going to the Med, just buy an AC in round 2 and land your 2 fighters on it. UK will not have enough fire power to attack an Italian fleet of 1 BB, 2 Cr + 1 full AC. If they can’t kill Italy’s fleet that UK fleet is wrongly placed in the Med and should better conquer Norway. Then go for Africa to get more income as Italy.

8 ) If you see UK + US heading for Europe, don’t buy so many tanks as Germany. Better go for Infantry and air units. If Germany constantly buy air units, especially bombers UK and US will have problems to cover their fleets. If they buy heavily naval units, good news! UK can buy only 8 units in London, this means, they will not have 4 fully transports quickly. Once you see you can not threaten that fleets any more, start Bombing London + Moscow. Play defensively as Germany. Build masses of units and hold of the Allies as long as possible. In round 4 Japan should have conquered Northern Russia, all China, India, the whole Pacific and is moving it’s fleet towards Italy to support, while 3 ICs (India, FIC and Manchuria) are building lot’s of offensive units every round. The Allies will have a hard time against such a Japanese Monster if the fail to break down Fortress Europe !

9. As Germany is the Target for all Allies, you need strong air for either protect Germany itself, but mainly to trade in a good ratio.
   If you attack with  just a few infantry and masses of fighters and bombers, you can wipe out large attack forces. This will slow down the Russians on the Eastern Front while prevent UK + US to get a foothold in France.

Try it and you will soon win your first games as Axis, since AA50 with NOs naturally favors the Axis. You need some bidding for the Allies to balance the game.

[bongaroo]

Yes, thanks for looking at game 1.  I’ve reviewed it a few times myself.  It was my first AA50 game and hence I had a lot to learn!

Mind taking a look at one of the later games and discussing it with me?

[Crossover]

Hi,

I checked game 7  - i was impressed - much better than game 1.

to find out what  went wrong is quite easy:

If Germany loses Norway + Finland there has to be done everything to deny the Russians access to the 10 IPC Bonus, which means Bulgaria + Poland should be fortified heavily. And what happend ? Russia got 47 IPC round 3 + 45 IPC round 4 - game over.

I tried to find out, why Germany was so weak on the Eastern front: Then I saw it - you wanted to keep UK + US out of France and pilled up units there. Exactly that units you did have on the Eastern front.

Well it’s always hard to play Germany/Italy if alle 3 Allies go for you, but i would prefer hand out UK + US the 5 IPC bonus for France instead of the 10 IPC for Russia.

Don’t forget UK can only buy 8 units at London, once they have a fleet + 4 Transports, they need only 32 IPC/round (4 Inf + 4 armour), so don’t care about Uk, give them the 5 IPC for France and kick them out of Europe in your next turn.  Even a UK with 70 IPC is not as dangerous as a Russia with 45 IPC, cause UK can’t use that money, while Russia can. Russia is the one the Axis have to kill.

But in overall it was a good game, if you have that units not in France but in EPL, you will get another 5 IPC bonus and Russia will not have that money. So far the strategy check. in overall: Holding France is interesting, but does not work if all Allies play a KGF strategy. Better expand quickly on the Eastern Front, kick out Allies from France and later carefully pull back to protect Germany + Italy, but then Japan is near Russia capital. With a better buying as Italy (4 inf instead of a bomber) it would have been harder for the Allies to capture Rome.

Some details:

• attacking Egypt as Germany without the bomber  - unwise,  losses are too high, just for strafing purpose

• Buying a bomber for Italy = crap

• Buying 1 Transport + 2 armour for Japan in Round - i don’t link it, I prefer an immediate IC in manchuria, which is always strong, but even stronger when US doesn’t bother you (as happened here)

• The IC on an 4 IPC Island is interesting, but you always require transports and that transports require cover. I don’t like that, better build that IC in India. However, that’s not the reason for the Axis defeat, it was the income of Russia which makes it too hard for Japan to pressure such a rich Russia quickly.

• if you have so many transports as Japan, conquer Hawaii + Wake island ( means - 5 IPC for US, as it’s a bonus)

• do not repair Rome if you have already 9 IPC damage. wait one round, send German tanks + fighter for shelter. It’s highly unattractive for the Allies to bomb a damaged Italian factory when the odds of making a maximum of 3 IPC damage is worse than the loss of a bomber to an AA hit. Next round repair and buy 6 units for Italy. Remember 12 is the maximum damage for Rome, from then on they can’t harm you any more. If you repair every round they bomb you again every round. better repair every second round !

• I don’t like your German first round attacks on the eastern front

You have two possibilities: either conquer that strong that any counterattack is crazy or that weak, that you do not lose much. Especially that tank you lose in Ukraine counterattack is a bitter loss.

Some Ideas to improve: Ukraine - is the most critical battle - why ? Well in G1 NCM you can move some units from Germany to Poland.
This means if Russia attacks either EPL or BST that support units from Poland will immediately be useful for another attack in G2.
Unfortunately for you Ukraine is harder to re-attack in G2 as you can’t bring units to Bulgaria in G1.

So either: “the weak attack”

3 Inf + 1 Art + 1 fighter vs 2 Inf in Ukraine

Goal, kill 2 units and get 2 IPC income

or: “the hard attack” 3 Inf + 1 art + 3 tanks in Ukraine

Goal: make a counterattack impossible

––

If you do the hard attack, do the other battles that way:

3 tanks + 3 Inf to EPL

Inf + art  + 1 fighter + 2 units transported (1 Inf from NWE + 1 Inf from Germany) + Cruiser Bombardment for BST

NCM: 2 Inf + art to Poland

Yes Russia can attack in BST, but a) it’s only a 1 IPC territory, while Ukraine is worth 2 IPC, b) BST is reachable for all German air units, while Ukraine is too far (at least to land somewhere to threaten UKs fleet for G3) and c) your Poland units can attack BST in G2.

Try it !
GL & HF

[Butcher]

Crossover has some good info to look at. I agree wholeheartedly on skipping on buying an Italian bomber and I like his G1 attacks. Bst is a very hard territory to secure first round, so I have lately been taking it lightly and focusing my troops in the south.

Russia having 45 IPC’s is going to result in Germany losing a lot of ground. If you don’t have troops on the front trading everyturn and attempting to hold the line in Russian territory, you will soon have a mountain of infantry with a few offensive pieces able to advance and fending off counterattacks.

I think a +1 to Crossover is in order for his incredibly useful post  :-)

[bugoo]

@bongaroo:

@bugoo:

Ok i’m looking at game 8 and see a few mistakes.

R1
Do NOT abandon Karelia!  G had 4 inf, 1 art, 3 arm and a bunch of planes in range.  Russia could have had a stack of 11 inf, 1 art, 1 arm plus 2 uk figs there.  You gave germany free money without them even having to work for it.  If you had to do an attack you should have struck Baltic States.

So I loose the fleet you suggest to not spend as much $ on?  If those fighters are in KAR they sure as heck aren’t keeping a fleet above the waters, right?

If Germany wants it they can take KAR on G2and If I stack all my defense there I just end up with nothing to trade territories with.

As I said G only had a handful of units in striking range of Karelia.  If you give G that much free money you will loose the game.  You could have stacked 11 inf, 1 arm, 1 art, plus an optional 2 UK figs, more than enough to hold it.  On R1 you must stack the crap outta Karelia or else Germany just makes too much money.

As far as navy best UK1 buy in my book is 1 AC, 3 trans, 1 Destroyer, land the 2 US figs on the carrier.  If G has a large quantity of air in range, scratch 2 of the transports for another AC or destroyer.  I really like the 3 transports though.  In the game I was looking at G only had 2 fighters and 1 bomber in range of SZ 2, the ideal location to drop your fleet.  Because of such a large transport buy, you force the germans to defend france heavily.  On UK2 you can begin a large shuck of units into Karelia, or, if you need more boats stop in SZ 6, trade NWE and do a large drop on Norway and build more boats.

[rockrobinoff]

@bugoo:

On R1 you must stack the crap outta Karelia or else Germany just makes too much money.

I am not so sure about this. Taking Karelia is worth 7 IPCs (2 plus the bonus). If Russia stacks Karelia, this means they don’t attack Finland and Norway, which are worth 5 IPCs together (5 IPCS I would prefer Russia to have than UK). That is a net gain for Germany of only 2 IPCS.

Additionally, if you are stacking Karelia with the help of the two British fighters, you are costing Russia 5 IPCS for having foreign units on Russian soil.

[Twigley]

I agree with Rockinroboff on this.

It is a bitter loss that Germany gets Karelia. But I really think that stacking it commits to many Russian forces. They are pinned and if Germany goes a southern route then they are out of range to intervene.

For that same reason - I don’t tend to like putting Russia troops into Norway/Finland.

And also - Rockinroboff is quite right - if you’re bothered about 5 IPCs then putting UK fighters into Karelia loses you 5 anyway.

I say let Germany take Karelia turn 1. It will force her to spread her force. Consolidate around Belorussia and cause trouble in the south - once Germany is moving south - get Karelia back. SBR it and remove AA to invalidate it as a production point. That way the Germans (if they want to use the factory will have to pay (hopefully) 3-4 IPCs just to use it and 6 IPCs just to AA it. They probably won’t - so you can concentrate on fighting in Ukraine. Pushing for Bulgaria and your 10 IPCs as the UK/US take scandinavia.

[bugoo]

In a KGF it is all about keeping G’s income low.  The UK/US should take finland/norway turn 2 regardless, and that extra 7 IPCs for Germany is huge.  No matter what G will be making 10 units a turn, an extra 7 IPCs turns two inf they would have built, into 2 armors, or 1 inf into a fighter, or almost another bomber to keep US/UK fleets at bay.  Germany will not crumble to the UK/US before Russia crumbles to Japan if you let Germany make 50ish IPCs and Italy 20ish.  You must keep there incomes in check.  And on turn 2 the UK should begin there shuck into Karelia so that the Russians don’t have to send any more units up there.  Now granted if G puts a ton of units in range of Karelia, then you are forced to abandon it typically, but when they only have like 6 ground units in range it is foolish to just give it to them.  Also, by abandoning Karelia you allow Germany to put a large stack there to continue trading Finland with the allies, making R’s 10 IPC NO harder to get, and it makes it more difficult for the UK shuck to take off.

[bongaroo]

I play it either way by the way.  I’ve stacked KAR and I’ve left it open.  I choose to leave it open if the odds are good for Germany to take it even if I stack it.  Loosing all those units is just horrid and can really cause a lot more trouble than Germany taking it for a turn.

Perhaps I’m still playing to cautiously against Germany as Russia?

[bugoo]

I almost always stack Kar and here is why.

1. 2 UK figs that I land there are UK units killing Germans as early as G2.
2. AA guns can really wreak G’s air and cause CDF during an attack on Kar by G.
3. It is where I start my UK shuck on UK2, even if G takes it in force, UK will usually wipe out any survivors
4. It kills German units.

If you let G reach critical mass in IPCs OR unit count you are doomed.  But if you kill German units your friends (US/UK) have a much easier time cracking that nut open.  I have had many games where on R1 I stack Kar, on G2 it is taken leaving a few German tanks left, Russia begins to push back in the south and begins stacking up Persia/Chingai and the UK lands in Kar killing the remaining armor.  This means G will usually only have token inf/art on Russias doorstep with 9 inf/1art in Poland and whatever they built in Berlin.  A very good looking board for the allies.

Let me give you an example, if Germany were to bring 10 inf, 1 art, and 6 arm up against 11 inf, 1 art, 1 arm, 2 figs, they would have roughly 5 units left on average.  That is the most ground G can have in range for G2.  For each plane that comes along you can assume 1 more ground unit left, but that gets messy because of AA gun.  If the UK builds boats in SZ 2 (the best) the US can land up to 2 fighters on UK’s carrier.  The UK should have 2-4 transports loaded up ready to drop into Kar on UK2 killing all german survivors.  This is a worst case assumption, G should not have that many units in range.

Russia absolutely needs to be offensive but must be careful because of Italian can opener threat.  This leaves you few options.  You can either build planes and set up trades and deadzones, you can mass up units to push G’s back in Belo or Ukraine, or you get germans to die by attacking you.  I perfer the last 2 options and that is why my favorite R1 purchase is 2 inf, 6 arts.  I stack Kar.  If G ignores Kar I move all those units into Belo and purchase tanks R2, being sure to move as many inf as needed into Ukraine to block the can opener and move my AA guns in Kar and Cauc to cover Belo and Ukraine (let them SBR me there I don’t care).  This gives you a force of around 18 inf, 8 art, and 6-7 armor that can hit East Poland on R3.  Along with G loosing Finland/Norway to the US/UK, an US fleet in SZ 12, and the SBR campain begining in force, this makes for a bad German turn 3.  Sure they can attack you, or continue stacking, but then soon you and the UK will rally in Baltic or East Poland and begin driving the fascist back.  Its almost like revised except the US goes after Italy/Africa instead and stays down there till they can take Italy or France.

[cts17]

There is another way for the Allies.

a 4 TP 2 way shuck between ECa and Fra hitting France on Turn 3, and every turn thereafter with 8 units, not including air units, is a very shocking blow to the Axis.

[bugoo]

Problem with that is by the end of I2 there should be around 5 Italy inf on france, going up by 3-6 a turn every turn, not even counting the german inf or the large number of fighters that germany and Japan can put there, and lastly that does nothing directly to take pressure off of Russia.  And with bombers in france you need 2 navies to cover them.  But to each there own.

[Lucifer]

Analytical help is nice, but there is only one way to be a decent player,and that is to practice and practice again, and play a lot of games, especially against players who are more experienced. Yesterday I played my first AA50 game since several months ago, and most logically, I did a lot of mistakes  :-( :-)

[bongaroo]

I understand that with play my skills and strategies will improve.  I’ve just felt like getting some of the community to talk out some of my gameplay would help me get a grip on what I need to focus on.