With the political exile option for the UK, our group has decided to give Germany a 10 IPC NO for control of London.
NEW BREAKTHROUGH CHARTS
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@Imperious:
…So to conclude the MATH give no indication of anything relative to a 4-3 or 4-4 cruiser, except a battlecruiser as you mention has no armor plating and big guns, so it makes more sence to make it 4-3, while a 4-4 unit makes less sence because if we go with your own point the armor plating is like a cruiser and a cruiser is at 3.
Ok, let me put it this way. If a cruiser attacks a battle cruiser, what will happen? The battlecruiser will shoot down the cruiser before the cruiser get in range for fire with its smaller guns! So the bottom line is that armour doesn’t matter if you going for a gun fight with a stick! By the way I really do enjoy our discussion and if you feel that I am rude, please let me know. You do give very good fedd back from time to time and hopefully this will result in better House Rules. Can’t wait to see the new game. The Tech system in AA50 is a really good, even if I do think that the breaktrough charts can be better.
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What dont you like about dive bombers, is it too powerful?
What if they just chose what land unit they destroyed on a roll of 1?Also 3 of my heavy tanks on defence would have and intial firepower of 12
While 5 infantry would have a firepower of 10 but so it does not obsolete infantry because they can take more causaulties and there firepower is not as fradgile( if you lose of of those tanks your down to 8), it just makes sence for tanks to be bought for defence if they have infantry for cannon fodder
Dive bombers seems a bit uncreative and is actually something that all countries had during WWII as a part of their airforce.
I agree on you about the heavy tank tech, but would not this rule be too powerful for Germany. Have you play tested it to find out if it is balanced? A unit excel based on balance: firepower (attack and defens), cost, and mobility (movement). Perhaps also armor protection, i.e. abillity to soak up hits, and other special abillities.
What about these three land techs:
Heavy Tanks
Your armor defends on a 4.Motorized Army
Your infantry and artillery have a move of 2 during noncombat move phase. The combat move of your infantry and artillery remains at 1.Rocket Artillery
Your artillery have a first-strike ability at an attack factor of 2. Any casualties are destroyed and removed from play, with no chance to counter-attack. This first-strike ability do only apply for attacks and is for the first cycle of combat only. In succeeding cycles of combat, your artillery hit normally. -
Ok, let me put it this way. If a cruiser attacks a battle cruiser, what will happen? The battlecruiser will shoot down the cruiser before the cruiser get in range for fire with its smaller guns! So the bottom line is that armour doesn’t matter if you going for a gun fight with a stick! By the way I really do enjoy our discussion and if you feel that I am rude, please let me know. You do give very good fedd back from time to time and hopefully this will result in better House Rules. Can’t wait to see the new game. The Tech system in AA50 is a really good, even if I do think that the breaktrough charts can be better.
If one player has just cruisers and the other player has tech Battlecruisers…and the BC is defending then its an even fight. correct
If the BC attacks a cruiser it fires at 4, then if it kills the enemy ship it also gets to move away using its speed bonus in NCM using unallocated movement points (like you do with fighters) so its like a fighter in that it moves in both move phases.
But since it has 3 MP it will usually never be on defense because it can easily escape enemy cruisers that move 2, then strike and pick off ships. So in this regard i dont see many situations where it would be defending.
OK Lets make it a 4-4 unit even though it should be at 3… one hit however!
also just cruisers get the AA shot. If you notice Jennifer has this idea of AA battleships and that does not make sence.
AS far as movement bonus id still stick with carriers and cruisers as the only ships that do a 3 MOVEMENT. Battleships are slow and have limited range as well as destroyers.
Thats why you usually find them both together, with carriers and cruisers in another group or just carriers… consult midway and leyte gulf and how the japanese and Americans deployed ships.
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@Mr:
Dive bombers seems a bit uncreative and is actually something that all countries had during WWII as a part of their airforce.
But didn’t some airforces have signifigantly better dive-bombers and ground attack aircraft, particularly the Germans and Russians.
And on the Heavy Armor idea, i didn’t say that it would not be overpowered, i just said it would not obsolete infantry.
And if it works really well for Germany i think that adds hitorical flavor.I very much like the rocket artillery idea, nebelwerfers and katayushas are some of my favorite WW2 weapons.
i dont like the mech inf tech, not because i dont like your spin on it, i just dont like the idea of representing increased mechanization in an army my increasing stratigic movement capability or non-combat movement. It should rather show up in a tactical way, although that is complicated to do in an A&A game.
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And on the Heavy Armor idea, i didn’t say that it would not be overpowered, i just said it would not obsolete infantry.
And if it works really well for Germany i think that adds hitorical flavor.I very much like the rocket artillery idea, nebelwerfers and katayushas are some of my favorite WW2 weapons.
Well Emperor, have you play tested the heavy tank tech were armour defend on a 4 or not. Was it overpowered?
And do you think that the Rocket artillery of mine is a better tech than the standard advanced artillery? Or is the idea of a rocket artilery – too specific and detailed for this level.
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@Mr:
Well Emperor, have you play tested the heavy tank tech were armour defend on a 4 or not. Was it overpowered?
And do you think that the Rocket artillery of mine is a better tech than the standard advanced artillery? Or is the idea of a rocket artilery – too specific and detailed for this level.
In past months i have played 3 games of AA50 that had tech rules or special abilities that gave Germany a tank that defended at four. It helped Germany greatly and the axis one all the games( in the games i have played the axis tend to win anyway)
They definently dont obsolete infantry though. I like them espeacilly late in the game and the Germans are trying to use them to defend there homeland, it feels historical. -
Heavy tanks should be restricted to building only one per turn. to instantly get all your tanks at 4 then just start buying tons of these will lead that player to victory because its 4’s for 5 vs 2’s for 3.
I also limit each side to 6 of these used on the board at one time. Nobody can just churn out thousands of heavy tanks because of the cost in metal. Even Germany who was the best example of Hvy tank could not build more than a few hundred. They even waited to launch offensives under Hitlers orders ( Kursk and Bulge) till they got the production numbers up over a long period of time.
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@Imperious:
Heavy tanks should be restricted to building only one per turn. to instantly get all your tanks at 4 then just start buying tons of these will lead that player to victory because its 4’s for 5 vs 2’s for 3…
If Tanks that defends on a 4 is too much perhaps artillery will do as a strategic defensive tech. Once Germany had been thrown on to the defensive in WWII the burden of combat shifted away from aircraft and tanks to the infantry and artillery. This were not because the former were not needed but rather their short supply forced reliance on the latter. The shortage of artillery therefore carried severe penalties. The inabillity to conduct effective large-scale counterbattery operations,as well as the loss of air superiority, was primary cause of German failure in both the West and the East. The early hopes of victory through mobility were replaced by an insatiable demand for the firepower of artillery.
Artillery was mostly a defensive unit during WWII. However, in A&A, it is usually only used as an offensive unit, mainly to give large infantry formations more punch, not for counterbattery fire upon enemy artillery. The task of destroying enemy artillery batteries can also fall to attack aircraft, but unless they are already on patrol overhead, they are usually not quick enough to save friendly forces from damage. More often, ground-based counter-battery fire would suppress the enemy artillery batteries and force them to move, while aircraft would follow up later with a strike to destroy the rest of the enemy artillery.
Fortress Artillery or Heavy Artillery
Your artillery defends on a 3. -
So what does this have to do with heavy Tanks?
You want to replace HT with HA?
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@Imperious:
So what does this have to do with heavy Tanks?
You want to replace HT with HA?
Ok, here we go again. What we need is a more defensive tech that is not overpowered, but simple and easy to play. Not at least since Jet Fighters have turned into an offensive tech. My suggestion is a better artillery, since the one in the box rules is offensive, and more over not historical correct. An artillery defending on a 3, would make lot of scence here, don’t you think?
_Once Germany had been thrown on to the defensive in WWII the burden of combat shifted away from aircraft and tanks to the infantry and artillery. This were not because the former were not needed but rather their short supply forced reliance on the latter. The shortage of artillery therefore carried severe penalties. The inabillity to conduct effective large-scale counterbattery operations,as well as the loss of air superiority, was primary cause of German failure in both the West and the East. The early hopes of victory through mobility were replaced by an insatiable demand for the firepower of artillery.
Artillery was mostly a defensive unit during WWII. However, in A&A, it is usually only used as an offensive unit, mainly to give large infantry formations more punch, not for counterbattery fire upon enemy artillery. The task of destroying enemy artillery batteries can also fall to attack aircraft, but unless they are already on patrol overhead, they are usually not quick enough to save friendly forces from damage. More often, ground-based counter-battery fire would suppress the enemy artillery batteries and force them to move, while aircraft would follow up later with a strike to destroy the rest of the enemy artillery._
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This is the question you ask:
An artillery defending on a 3, would make lot of scence here, don’t you think?
But you write:
What about these three land techs:
Heavy Tanks
Your armor defends on a 4.The answer is not possible because i am not sure you want both or one or the artillery tech and not the armor tech. If you want both id say its redundant.
If you want only one I would definatly dump the artillery tech and have Heavy tanks.
In a best possible outcome id just have elite armor, which is a 4-4 unit or 4-5 unit representing Waffen SS or Shock armies limited by 6 total on the map at any time and limited to build one of these a turn. Any more will bust the game as hordes of these would be built and break the game.
Now then are you fixing on having both of these or just one?
and no its not “here we go again”
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@Imperious:
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The answer is not possible because i am not sure you want both or one or the artillery tech and not the armor tech. If you want both id say its redundant.If you want only one I would definatly dump the artillery tech and have Heavy tanks…
I am thinking of replacing the Advanced Artillery tech with my Heavy Artillery or Heavy Tanks, and ask you about it. No more new units, just simple tech upgrades that are easy to play. And sorry about, here we go again…
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ok than just use HVY tanks. tanks is what its about. I would feature them for some Tech.
But again limit them or the game will be busted with hordes of these shooting out all of a sudden. Its like 1/2 price fighters!
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@Imperious:
ok than just use HVY tanks. tanks is what its about. I would feature them for some Tech.
But again limit them or the game will be busted with hordes of these shooting out all of a sudden. Its like 1/2 price fighters!
But then getting heavy armor, also comes with the negative effect of limiting the number of tanks you can produce.
I am not saying it is bad, i am just saying it would then be very different from the other techs.
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But then getting heavy armor, also comes with the negative effect of limiting the number of tanks you can produce.I am not saying it is bad, i am just saying it would then be very different from the other techs.
Well, one can always think outside the box. It should always be simple and easy.
Heavy Tanks
Every third tank you have in each combat cycle, attack or defend on a 4. -
What about Jet Fighters, is no1 or no2 best:
1. Jet Fighters
Your fighters now fire in the opening fire step, whether on attack or defense. Any casualties are destroyed and removed from play, with no chance to counter-attack.2. Jet Fighters
The attack value of your fighters is now 4 instead of 3. They may now intercept bombers in a SBR. Bomber interception last for one cycle of combat only. The defender declares intercepting jet fighters before any defending AA-guns fire. The intercepting jet fighters attack on a 3 were as the bomber defend on a 1 (2 if heavy bombers). The surviving bombers are on the second cycle of combat subjected to any AA fire. Any jet fighters used in a interceptor role may also defend in a regular land attack against that same territory on the same turn. -
This is better.
1. Jet Fighters
Your fighters now fire in the opening fire step, whether on attack or defense. Any casualties are destroyed and removed from play, with no chance to counter-attack.except add Jets are unaffected by AA fire. They also cannot be used on Carriers. The preemptive fire goes for defense in SBR attacks as well ( if using the optional rule for escorts and interceptors).
AA guns could never hope to shoot down these planes because at that time the guidance was not fast enough to track or get a good shot on planes moving twice the speed of prop planes.
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What about fortress artillery :?
Fortress Artillery
Your antiaircraft guns now also defends on a 5 during the conduct combat phase (but only one antiaircraft gun in a territory can fire, even if they are controlled by different powers), but can still shoot down attacking air during the opening fire step of combat. Antiaircraft guns cannot be destroyed, and hence not taken as a casualty. -
no not good.
I think you got some thing for artillery lately. I don’t see any need for changes or modifications except perhaps on first round if they roll a one they can choose the target, but thats it.
The only other option would require an actual piece and including self propelled artillery which is a gun on a tank chasis ( and move 2)
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