Do the Chinese lose their money when you take their capitols?

[Linkler]

Does anybody know the answer to this: do the Chinese factions lose their IPPs when you take their original capitols?

[insaneHoshi]

Good question.

I don’t know the answer, but I should point CCP might not have a capital (as i believe it is the only nation does not have one of the nine capitol cities)

[HBG GW Enthusiast]

@insanehoshi I count 10, but any time I go against you, I lose, my friend! 8 )
Washington D.C.
London
Calcutta
Sydney
Paris
Nanking
Berlin
Tokyo
Rome
Moscow

[HBG GW Enthusiast]

@hbg-gw-enthusiast I don’t know the answer either. I think maybe nothing happens!

[insaneHoshi]

@hbg-gw-enthusiast Odds are you are right this time.

[Noneshallpass]

According to rule 9.23, France gives its IPP to the conquering player (usually Germany) and all other powers lose their IPP to the bank.

As to where is the capital, it is in the territory with the brightest roundel when there are multiple territories (rule 1.3).

I did not find where it would say that CCP has no capital, but since it only has one territory (Shenshi) it is hard to determine if the roundel is bright or muted or if it is even relevant, since the bright/muted rule only applies to nations with more than one territory.

It does make me realize that in 20+ games where Nanking always fell, we never took the IPP away from the KMT… oops.

[HBG GW Enthusiast]

@noneshallpass Amazing answer!!!

[TheVeteran]

@noneshallpass we play no capitols for the Chinese. CCP never loses their money as they never surrender. And if KMT surrenders they also surrender their money. see the KMT and CCP reference sheets on surrender.

[SpartanTom]

@theveteran I may be wrong but I don’t believe it has something to do with surrendering. Rule 9.23 says : “A nation that loses its capital loses all of its cash IPPs to the bank (even if it did not surrender) with the exception of France (which loses it to the conquering player)."

Personally I never removed KMT/CCP IPPs when they lost their capital, but I don’t see why we shouldn’t.

[HBG GW Enthusiast]

@spartantom Concur.

I have been playing this wrong. As CCP, I don’t have the capital at the start of the game, so I will not be affected by this rule until I do. But I am going to start making KMT and CCP lose their money when they lose Nanking.

[Trig]

@hbg-gw-enthusiast I believe that the CCP capital is Shensi, like any other minor power with only one land zone. Also, its roundel is brighter than normal.

[HBG GW Enthusiast]

@trig Well, for the Nationalist Spanish and CCP, I would argue they are a special case from other minor powers. Do you feel the Nationalist Spanish have a capital, or do you agree with my view that the Republican Spanish hold the capital at the start of the game? What roundel is brighter for the Nationalist Spanish? It seems to me that if you do end up agreeing with me that the Nationalist Spanish do not hold the capital at the start of the game, then you will agree that once the Nationalist Spanish take Madrid, the Republican Spanish should forfeit their money. If the Republican Spanish take it back from them, then the Nationalist Spanish lose their money. It will work the same with China.

[Trig]

@hbg-gw-enthusiast I believe that there is a difference between nationalist Spain, where we see all dull roundels, and the CCP, where we see a single bright roundel.
We see one bright roundel in Madrid.

Here we see several brighter roundels. One in Shensi, one in Nanking, one in Beijing, one in Tsinghai, on in Tibet, one in Yunan,… basically one per warlord or side. I think that in this case each has their own capital, and don’t share one in Nanking, as it could also be in Peking, or Yunnan, etc.

[TheVeteran]

@hbg-gw-enthusiast Spain doesn’t matter as they don’t operate with cash. There is no need to add them in when talking about losing $ from your capitol.

[HBG GW Enthusiast]

@trig That’s strong evidence, and I cannot argue with the brightness of the roundel in Shensi. However, note Nanking. It is printed in red, is a city, and has a star indicating a major power capital. Shensi is a territory name, not a city name.

In your view, with the bright roundel, there are two capitals, one of which is listed on Page 16, 3.2 as an Objective City, the other isn’t even listed on the map or named, but for the first time in the game is a territory rather than a city.

I think the brightest of Shensi isn’t enough. My way makes the most sense.

[HBG GW Enthusiast]

@theveteran said in Do the Chinese lose their money when you take their capitols?:

@hbg-gw-enthusiast Spain doesn’t matter as they don’t operate with cash. There is no need to add them in when talking about losing $ from your capitol.

True. I will withdraw my Spanish Civil War analogies and focus solely on China (and stick to OP).

[Chris_Henry]

@hbg-gw-enthusiast

@trig That’s strong evidence, and I cannot argue with the brightness of the roundel in Shensi. However, note Nanking. It is printed in red, is a city, and has a star indicating a major power capital. Shensi is a territory name, not a city name.

I could be misremembering here, but I don’t think the city names in being red necessarily actually mean any thing in-game. I think that’s just there stylistically. Constantinople is in red, for example, but that isn’t Turkey’s capital city/territory, and the Constantinople territory itself doesn’t have any special usage in-game either.

I guess to me, 1.3 Colors and Roundels covers this:

“All Nations on the map are identified by a color and a roundel. Nations that have more than one land zone have the brightest roundel located on their capital and muted roundels in other locations.”

That to me makes it pretty clear that Nanking serves as the KMT capital, and so would be subject to the KMT losing it’s IPP to the bank if taken.

It also makes me believe then Shensi would serve as the CCP capital since it’s the only territory they possess, and I would agree with @Trig that the roundel does look to be brighter like other single-territory countries.

However, to play devil’s advocate, the CCP and KMT reference sheets both list as Chinese Home Country “All starting KMT, CCP, and Warlord land zones, Formosa, Hong Kong, Rehe, Northern, Western and Eastern Manchuria”. When you look at that, it could give credence to a single capital for both factions being Nanking.

I ultimately think that Shensi serves as the CCP capital though, and if taken the CCP loses all IPP to the bank. But this is a very interesting topic that I’m certainly not certain on!

[Noneshallpass]

@Chris_Henry raises a valid point that since CCP and KMT share the same Home Country, it would only be logical that they also share a capital in Nanking.

Another argument for Shensi not being a capital is that it is not a city like most capitals in the game (but there are exceptions like Northern Iran).

And I am still not convinced that the CCP roundel on the map is as bright as the one in Nanking, especially if you compare it to the HBG CCP roundels where the red is much brighter.

After all these posts, this would seem to be fairly straight forward questions for the FAQ :

Q. Is Shensi a capital for the CCP ?
A. Yes or No

Q. If Nanking is captured while occupied by the CCP, does the CCP lose its IPP to the bank ?
A. Yes or No

And I may add :

Q. If Nanking is captured by the CCP in the Chinese Civil War, does the KMT lose its IPP to the bank ?
A. Yes or No

[CaptainNapalm]

In my opinion, Shensi and Nanking are the capitals of the CCP and KMT, respectively. They lose their on hand IPP, when they lose their capital.

The fact that so many of us missed this, doesn’t change that it seems quite clear, in the rules. Our group has adjusted our current game, and will play by the written rules, until we find out there is some exception relating to China.

[HBG GW Enthusiast]

@noneshallpass said in Do the Chinese lose their money when you take their capitols?:

@Chris_Henry raises a valid point that since CCP and KMT share the same Home Country, it would only be logical that they also share a capital in Nanking.

Another argument for Shensi not being a capital is that it is not a city like most capitals in the game (but there are exceptions like Northern Iran).

And I am still not convinced that the CCP roundel on the map is as bright as the one in Nanking, especially if you compare it to the HBG CCP roundels where the red is much brighter.

After all these posts, this would seem to be fairly straight forward questions for the FAQ :

Q. Is Shensi a capital for the CCP ?
A. Yes or No

Q. If Nanking is captured while occupied by the CCP, does the CCP lose its IPP to the bank ?
A. Yes or No

And I may add :

Q. If Nanking is captured by the CCP in the Chinese Civil War, does the KMT lose its IPP to the bank ?
A. Yes or No

Nonshallpass asks, and it seems he shall receive!
From the updated FAQ today:
**Q: Do CCP or KMT have a Capital? (e.g. able to lose their IPP to the bank if captured)

A: No.**

So it seems the answer to all three questions is NO!