@trig IIRC the wording is “Republican Spain aligns to the USSR if attacked” which can be a bit linguistically confusing. I agree that Republican Span is the one that needs to be attacked.
Hypothetical Allied Elite expansion
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The Elite expansions are slowly coming full circle. After Germany & USSR, Japan’s elite is now out. Personally I would like to see elite units for the Allies as well. I currently work on house rules for them and maybe HBG wants to make it an official expansion one day. Which Allied units or unit would u wish included in a hypothetical Allied elite expansion and why if it was your call?
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For the USA, an Airborne expansion could be interesting, as the basic Airborne Infantry are not very good at keeping a territory that they captured, due to their low defensive value (2). Such an expansion could possibly include gliders and the ability to drop light armor behind the lines.
Contrary to the USSR and German (and now Japan) Elite expansions, which can quickly place the elite troops near the action, it will be a challenge to bring allied Elite troops effectively to the battlefield if they are created in their Home Country.
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Good remarks on placement challenges for the Allies.
US airborne are definitely on my wishlist as well. Gliders are such a nice addition in my view. (But I can not talk about them yet without giving away details 😃)
HBG already has some glider sculpts and also some airborne markers. They could definitely be a great addition.
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Royal Commandos would be my first choice. Something to represent thing like the Greatest Raid would be neat.
Chindits and the Long Range Desert Group would be good options too.
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I’m so torn on the Elite Expansions. Part of me loves them/the idea of them, and think they add a really fun, unique flavor to the game. But at the same time I have to this point not felt adding all the time it would take to have to cross-reference what Elite unit does what with some kind of chart before every single battle they might be in. I’ve just thought of that as being a huge amount of time added to the game, but maybe I’m wrong without having played them.
All that said, here’s some ideas real quick.
USA:
- 82nd Airborne - Probably most famous airborne unit.
- 101st Airborne - Probably 2nd most famous airborne unit.
- 442nd Regiment (Nisei) - I know this is in the Minorities at War Expansion too, but they were so decorated on their merits as a unit besides being a Minority unit that I just wanted to point them out again.
- 2nd Ranger Battalion - I think the most famous WWII Ranger unit. Fought at Pointe du Hoc on D-Day. Maybe some kind of amphibious rule for them like marines.
- 1st Infantry Division - Probably most famous army unit in WWII famously called “The Big Red One”. Fought in Africa, Sicily, and Europe.
- 3rd Infantry Division - Fought in Africa, Sicily, and Europe.
- 1st through 6th Marine Divisions - Maybe not all 6, but all had big parts. I suppose the 1st Marine Division is the most famous.
UK:
- Long Range Desert Group (LRDG) - This is shown in HBG’s Special Forces Expansion already, but thought important to show here as well.
- 1st Airborne Division - The “Red Devils” multiple theaters, and famously fought in Operation Market Garden.
- 3rd Division - Saw action in the early war as part of the BEF, was at Dunkirk, and later was part of the D-Day landings, and fought in Belgium, the Netherlands, and Germany.
FEC:
Long Range Penetration Groups - Commonly called “Chindits”. While it seems their wartime record may have been exaggerated at times by Wingate, still a very interesting and unique force for the FEC to have. Fought in Africa and South-East Asia.
ANZAC:
- Australian I Corps - Renamed the ANZAC Corps since it comprised New Zealand units as well. Fought in Greece, Crete.
- 2nd New Zealand Division - Fought in the British 8th Army in North Africa.
- Australian 7th Division - Fought in New Guinea
Free France:
1st Free French Division - First units to join de Gaulle and consisted of French nationals as well as colonial units from the French empire.
Canada (If using Canada at War Expansion):
- 3rd Infantry Division - Fought at D-Day
Hybrid:
1st Special Service Force - Commonly called the “Devil’s Brigade”. This was a combined American-Canadian force. Could be used for the USA, UK or for Canada if using the Canada at War Expansion.
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@chris_henry
There are multiple candidates in your list that are featured in the Special Operations Forces Expansion. Still a lot remain. Question is, what is the distinction between a special operations forces and an elite unit. When I did the research on the Special Operations Forces Expansion, I chose to differentiate between elite forces (marines, airborne and some other nation specific elite forces) and special operations forces (smaller size units with specialized training (sometimes behind enemy lines or at the frontier of upcoming battles as preparations/softening defenses and such)).
That said the elite expansions versus OOB rules show a bit more historical background to what otherwise are generic elite units in the game. There is a difference in ‘feel’ if you place ‘just an airborne’ or the 82nd.I read in your comment the need for shorter gameplay. Is that correct? Some want to see an end to the game. Some want it to continue for as long as possible and that depends on if you can leave the map standing for a week to continue where you ended the weekend before. Expansions take up a bit of time, but if you like one or two or more the rules will eventually stick and game length will not be too much effected.
Back to topic, I would be interested why you guys choose regular units that are not elite per se as included. Would they not better become veteran units by their accomplishments in battle?
Would like to know your reasoning out of curiosity. Thanks for answering in advance. -
@delaja Long reply here, sorry in advance haha.
First to the point on gameplay. I should clarify that (even though it’s off topic). I LOVE playing this game. I frankly don’t have any issues with how long gameplay is myself personally. It’s a long game, if that bothers someone then this isn’t the game for them! So part of me leans in to that and says “what’s adding a little more time” haha. But at the same time, my brother and dad have a harder time wanting to add even more time to a game! So I tend to try and pick and chose the best ways to spend that extra time, and reviewing specialized units too much has so far just not been it. If it was just me, I’d love using all the elite units every game, and just deal with the time it takes! So no, not really a need for shorter gameplay, as that’s just not what this game is, but more of a selective look at what we do to make the game even longer!
Anyways, back more on topic. To the point on Special Operations Forces. I definitely agree that there was some overlap there, especially since I pointed it out haha. But part of me did that because it’s not necessarily the case that someone uses the Special Operations Expansion. So maybe it’s something where those units are made available in the Elite Expansion as well? If both expansions are being used, just have a disclaimer that the rules for each are the same? Just a thought. But certainly understood that the role of Special Operations are smaller units, so that might not be what you’re looking for in Elite Units.
To Elite Units and choice made. I guess here’s a counter question, and this is something that I just might not be as read up on as would needed from a historical context, but what would constitute Allied Elite units for you? The Germans have the SS, which makes sense. The USSR the Home Guard, which also is unique and makes sense. Italians, if you were to make it, could have Bersaglieri. Japan having SNLF makes sense.
But for the Allies, what is the equivalent then? It sounds like Airborne, Marines, Army units, aren’t what you’re looking for. Do US Ranger units count? Or are those too small? I guess I don’t know what, for any Allied nation really, is the equivalent to the Axis and USSR ones mentioned above to be able to make this for game play? My thought, which was probably reflected in the units I suggested, was to take specialized units from history that had performed well during the war and to make those Elite. But that was also because I couldn’t think of a unit type that exists to meet the “Elite” criteria that you might be looking for?
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@Chris_Henry
I agree that the Allies mostly have their elite units in the Special Operations Expansion already. But there are some units among which you mentioned that deserve some attention. However I am not posting this from an official HBG point of view, but merely to scratch the surface of what could or might one day be. I had a similar issue back then with the Elite of the Soviet Union expansion. Designing it in a similar fashion as the German variant was not possible, because of the specific way Soviet elite units developed to be just that. So halfway the design I had to decide to start over again from a different angle and Soviet units became elite by rewarding. It could be a similar game mechanic by which the Allied Elite could be designed. Maybe there are alternatives. But it is off topic to go into that very deep and also I don’t want to give away any rudimentary ideas that exist already.
But on your list it contains some units I also have on my wish list as a player. As a designer I can only say that such an expansion is not (yet) in the making. People could use the Allied units from the Special Forces Expansion and house rule them. That is one of the fun things of the game. You can mix drinks as you can mix expansions to add the flavor to the game as you wish it to be.
So I can’t really answer your question, because I am not officially searching, but I am curious which units th e community thinks are elite units and also why. They could be regular army units who did something seemingly impossible.
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