@david-06 sorry but no thanks.
Invading the soviet union with lighting war continued
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@chris_henry The same from me if you felt offended. I actually never thought you were rude and I was never offended. For the soviet invasion, I was thinking jan 1940, since then the Soviets would retreat units from the Far East and I would be able to quickly take the area, remember Moscow, with most of their Factory production is taken by that time. By jul 1939, I would have 21 IPPs for the Invasion. I would upgrade the militia in northern manchuria, and build a colonial infantry there. for Eastern Manchuria, I would also build a colonial and in japan, I would build 1 mountains and a SNLF. That’s 19 IPPs, but I could always allocate some troops into China, for which I would have 1 mountain and 1 militia
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@david-06 No, not at all! I just felt like I walked in and started challenging your strategies. Just wanted to be sure you knew I wasn’t being pompous, rude, etc.!
Moscow is taken by which time? Don’t forget the USSR can move its factories, so I wouldn’t say Moscow falling is necessarily the end of its factory!
If you don’t attack until January 1940, it’ll take at least 3 turns (so July 1941) to take Moscow, right? That’s just 3 turns’ worth of the USSR being at max income to help blunt the attacks!
I also could be wrong about this part, it certainly is hard to envision without a board in front of me. But if I’m the USSR, and I’m seeing this play out, I’m not so sure I send the large amount of forces to the east that you’re thinking. There isn’t much IPP to be lost in the far east. I wonder if at that point I’m better off leaving minimal stalling forces, and continuing my main defenses in the west against the Germans. Trade space for time this way while losing minimal units and IPP against the Japanese. But everyone would certainly react differently!
I guess we haven’t established this, but when is your plan to attack France? After the USSR, right? I think we’ve been talking like that’s the case, but I guess I don’t know your full thoughts on that part!
By this time France and the UK will have entered the war. They both have probably entered by 1940 in fact, right? With the peace time increases for your attack on Poland, then the USSR, as well as two rearmament rolls. And even more increase potential if Italy has attacked someone at this point. If they have joined the war, that almost assuredly means the ANZAC will have reinforced the DEI, making amphibious attacks for the money islands harder. And lend lease will start to come to China via the Burma Road too!
For me, it’s such a difficult game to intend to ignore certain areas with grand plans in others. Like, I don’t know that an all-focus attack on the USSR without attacks on France at the same time or before is successful for the Axis overall. Same with waiting on taking the DEI until after Chinese and Russian attacks, as the Commonwealth will now have moved to reinforce the islands!
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@david-06 As a note, Japan cannot build colonials.
@Chris_Henry How will the UK reinforce the NEI? Assuming Japan or Germany hasn’t attacked, (Which they shouldn’t) the Dutch are neutral. -
@trig Good point! Sorry, I’m playing all this through in my head, and I keep thinking about how if it were me France/Belgium/Netherlands would have already been attacked before Russia. So I was thinking of it in terms of that. But yeah, in @David-06 scenario that is not the case. So my mistake on that portion of it!
When I play the Axis I try and time the Japanese invasion of the DEI to coincide with the German invasion of Western Europe.
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@chris_henry I was going to use Lightning War for the USSR so I’ll take the factories in 1 turn, basically before Russia can do anything about it. If you saw my plans, I included taking ALL the major factories, which means that for some time, the soviet Production will be limited. I had 2 plans for USSR, the “2” one is if there is basically nothing in Ukraine. Also, there is a 25% chance once Germany invades Poland (jan 1939) that Britain won’t be able to join the war. There is also a 19% France won’t be able to join (jan 1939). For france, with the help of Italy, I would invade Southern France and as Italy I would gather my forces and I would do suicide attacks on the Capital, Paris, and Germany would also do so. But that does mean that Italy could actually defeat france. The DEI, I realized would have to go later.
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@david-06 I’ll definitely be curious on how it pans out! I know there was a thread a while back for the V2 game about this very possibility for Moscow to fall during the Lightning War attack, and it was largely debunked as not very likely to succeed. But all games are different, I think it will depend largely on how smartly your Comintern player defends against it, and how well the Allied player exploits it!
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@chris_henry Hopefully I’ll be able to try it out. Though I think this will make the game way more interesting.
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@david-06 If it does work, a boring game for the Comintern will be afoot haha.
I know this is based on a base-game scenario, but this sounds like a fun chance to use the Partisans Expansion too! Would force the Axis to really have to defend their new territories from who knows how many Soviet partisans in the area haha.
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@chris_henry Partisans do add a lot of action, it also gives the allies something to do in the early game.
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@david-06 Definitely! That’s one I really like to play with in my games. I don’t want to derail your thread, but that one is certainly one we like to use! Makes the CCP a lot more fun as well, especially when used with the Chinese Civil War expansion too!
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@chris_henry That would make things harder, though I would rather fight some partisans than the might of the soviets and Americans combined.
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@david-06 True there!
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@chris_henry Two- front wars don’t work that well. I remember one game in which I played as Germany in which I had to fight on 5 fronts at one time, most of which were defensive. Didn’t end well for the Germans
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@david-06 While I certainly agree on that, I also just don’t think letting one alliance build up unchecked won’t end well either!
My typical play/hope is to use my lightning war round effectively in the west to take at least all of France, though hopefully Norway, Denmark, Belgium, and the Netherlands as well.
In doing this, you wrap up mainland resistance right away, and the UK is almost assuredly in no position to make amphibious assaults against you immediately after, allowing you some time to build defenses, while focusing more manpower in the east.
Depending on how the game has gone to this point (i.e. where my troops have been placed, enemy troops are placed, peacetime income increase rolls, etc.) I will also either simultaneously attack the USSR, utilizing the Lighting War and Soviet Surprise Attack abilities, and hopefully getting to the two front line cities/factories quickly.
To me, doing this now neutralizes any big French buildup of units in France. The longer it takes to take them out, the harder and more costly it’ll be, and the more IPP’s you’ll have to sacrifice taking them out will hurt! But I think you have the larger IPP advantage at this point in having gained French IPP (and money in the bank), and now France was taken out efficiently, while also making any UK attempts much more costly with amphibious assaults instead of free movements to the mainland.
From there, it’s trying a defensive game in the west, while pushing the resources you need in the east!
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@chris_henry This is where Italy will go into play. If Southern France is taken, then French troops into North Africa is delayed, and since from Northern Italy you can invade the Balkans, The French won’t really expect it. This, paired with the suicidal attacks into Paris, which will weaken France leading to less troops on the front. I think that the cash from the Soviet union will pay off more later on. Also, Germany doesn’t even have to take France and still will fulfill all of its VPs. So, in reality, they could play a defensive war and since the only two entrances will by that time be well defended, and infantry are really cheap, they could wait out the war.
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@chris_henry Also, simply put, the Axis at one point will be able to out produce the Allies and simply wait out the war.
Axis non-bonus: 130 IPPs
Allies non-bonus: 128 IPPs -
@david-06 I guess when does this Italian assault happen on France? I don’t see any realm where Italy is successful against France. France out-produces Italy really soon.
Anything against France is happening after the assaults on the USSR have begun, right? I’d just be shocked to see Italy have any success!
I don’t think Germany could stay neutral either. Why wouldn’t the Allies attack them? I know I wouldn’t just sit still as the Allies in this scenario while the Axis attempted to steamroll the USSR.
I guess I’d have to see your money breakdown for what gets what to get the numbers you got. But I think when Allied wartime bonuses come into play I think it would get hard for the Axis!
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@chris_henry Defending is better than attacking. The Allies wouldn’t really attack Germany, at least not successfully, because of the defense the Germans will be putting up (which shall compose of infantry militia, and artillery mostly). The Allies won’t have much of a choice when it comes to attacking spots, if they don’t force through the Danish straits, which will take a toll on their navy, and trap it in the Baltic. Now thinking about it, Italy could stay neutral, and lend lease to the Germans and make capital ships for that one victory condition, and that one away from the British. Those numbers are if Japan takes their half of russia and China with the money islands, and Germany takes their half of Russia with the Baltic states and Yugoslavia and thelassy with turkey and I raq alliened
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@david-06 I guess I’m having a really hard time envisioning how the Axis are going to possibly be able to have the units available to do all this?
I get that defending is better. But think of this from an Allied perspective. If what you plan actually happens, and the USSR is getting steamrolled, in what world would the Allies just sit back and do nothing? They’d just lose and concede the game if they just sat there and did nothing! They’d be forced to attack, even if the odds were against them. Otherwise you might as well just pick up the board and start the game over, right?
I guess I just don’t see how France is defeated here either. There’s no way in my mind Italy can defeat them. Even if all of Italy’s starting game units were shipped to Northern Italy, France’s income levels will quickly outpace them, especially if Italy just stays neutral as you mention maybe doing! Hell, just with Germany’s invasion of Poland alone France could reach wartime income, not to mention the bonuses for the USSR being attacked, and Slovakia, Austria, Bohemia, and Chinese territories being invaded. It just won’t take long from France to outproduce Italy. Then you sprinkle in UK reinforcements there too!
We might just have fundamental differences on what we think the enemy would do here. I just don’t see a realm where in this scenario the Axis have anything near the defensive forces needed to just keep the Allies contained in France, while getting the kind of push into Russia that you’re envisioning and the forces that would also require!
I’ll really be curious to hear how this turns out for you!
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@chris_henry Italy, with their little income, will spend it on capital ships (to the UK try to counter). Germany, in itself won’t have to defend in may areas, since its taking really few western territories=limited western response. The defensive war basically starts once both powers declare war on you, which there is a ~42% chance that at least one of them won’t be able to declare war on you (France most likely). you can drop a fort there later and build infantry and militia, which then if France attacks and fails, they might as well lose alasce-lorraine, then Paris, and this way, Germans will won’t have to concentrate on two fronts, but only defending one front.
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