France or Italy

[bbrett3]

@Upside-down_Turtle:

Even w/o it’s fleet, Italy can still cover France.  It can also support Germany vs Moscow.  9 IPCs still equals 3 inf each turn to sent to Ukraine.  I wouldn’t call that “neutering”, per say (if u must use that term).

For the purpose of this post any form of the word neuter will be replaced with cripple :wink::

Destroying the navy is considered crippling Italy because in many games North Africa is where most of of  Italy’s fighting is done, and without a Navy they cannot get troops to their front, which means that they are crippled

[Zhukov44]

@dondoolee:

@Zhukov44:

Maybe I haven’t played enough to fully understand the discussion….  But doesn’t Italy have a pre-existing factory?  Shouldn’t capturing it be a priority?

For me it just has to do with the logistics and flexability of the whole thing, Italy can turn into a logistical nightmare.  On top of that it is too remote to be a prime target for me.  On top of that, it is fairly easy to neuter w/o much effort.

Yes, I’m starting to realize that if Germany has a lot of planes it will be tough to get an offensive going.  But….if USA can take and hold the Italy factory (and Germany can’t really liberate it unless they have a stack on France)…then isn’t Germany doomed?

[dondoolee]

Italy is to remote and too much of a hassel to put it in ones head to KIF.  On top of which a staging ground up north threatens France, Germany, and other valuable land, while also being able to re enforce Russia if they are in a picke.  All this can be done without really moving your fleet and being able to re enforce quicker.  After you take France, which is much easier to hold and re enforce, you simultaneously threaten both Italy and Germany.

On top of that, Italy can put up a suprisingly stiff resistance if you gun straight for it, not good when re enforcing troops there is difficult (as opposed to re enforcing the UK for a French attack).

[bbrett3]

Anyone else think it’s funny that, according to what we’re saying here, the Allies did the wrong thing by invading Italy before France?

I’m actually considering breaking Italy up into 2 pieces, making it harder to defend, and allowing the Allies to “move up the boot”

[dondoolee]

@Zhukov44:

@dondoolee:

@Zhukov44:

Maybe I haven’t played enough to fully understand the discussion….  But doesn’t Italy have a pre-existing factory?  Shouldn’t capturing it be a priority?

For me it just has to do with the logistics and flexability of the whole thing, Italy can turn into a logistical nightmare.  On top of that it is too remote to be a prime target for me.  On top of that, it is fairly easy to neuter w/o much effort.

Yes, I’m starting to realize that if Germany has a lot of planes it will be tough to get an offensive going.  But….if USA can take and hold the Italy factory (and Germany can’t really liberate it unless they have a stack on France)…then isn’t Germany doomed?

If the Allies can take and hold France I think that signals the death knell for Germany as well.  The thing is, France is a lot easier to take usually.

[atarihuana]

@bbrett3:

Anyone else think it’s funny that, according to what we’re saying here, the Allies did the wrong thing by invading Italy before France?

I’m actually considering breaking Italy up into 2 pieces, making it harder to defend, and allowing the Allies to “move up the boot”

well first of all that was a real war and this is a board game. they invaded italy because at that point it was probably clear to them that they would have to land in fance to make it to germany. italy is nice, its just a) longer supply lines and b ) the alps. they really screw up your battleboard planning ;) but still you dont want a potential threat south east while marching to Berlin.

breaking up italy will screw balance there totally imho.

ps. i just pressed notify insetead of modify…  :roll:

[Upside-down_Turtle]

Italy has a 6 IPC complex.  If you can hold for 1 round, how is it hard to reinforce?

[bbrett3]

@Upside-down_Turtle:

Italy has a 6 IPC complex.  If you can hold for 1 round, how is it hard to reinforce?

It’s not reinforcing it I’m worried about, it’s holding it for one turn with Germany adjacent to your north

[Adlertag]

@bbrett3:

@Upside-down_Turtle:

Italy has a 6 IPC complex.  If you can hold for 1 round, how is it hard to reinforce?

It’s not reinforcing it I’m worried about, it’s holding it for one turn with Germany adjacent to your north

Germany is adjacent to Italy ?

Are we playing Revised or AA50 ?

[dondoolee]

@Upside-down_Turtle:

Italy has a 6 IPC complex.  If you can hold for 1 round, how is it hard to reinforce?

My guess is, in most games, if you can hold either of them w/o a trade it signifies the knell for the Western Axis.  But why plan to waste all the time and resources to actually PLAN to take Italy 1st.  It is far too much of a hassel.  Don’t get me wrong if an opportunity presents itself go right ahead, I just wouldn’t count on it.  Italy is far too inconvieniant a target in most scenarios.  Think of the resources that are wasted trying to take Italy, which while the ships are sailing towards it, nothing else can be put in Europe for 2 turns.

[bugoo]

I have found it is best to have the US threaten Italy while she retakes Africa as the UK stays in the north reinforcing Russia’s front with germany.  This threatens so many territories that you can keep germany and italy spread out.

[bbrett3]

@Adlertag:

@bbrett3:

@Upside-down_Turtle:

Italy has a 6 IPC complex.  If you can hold for 1 round, how is it hard to reinforce?

It’s not reinforcing it I’m worried about, it’s holding it for one turn with Germany adjacent to your north

Germany is adjacent to Italy ?

Are we playing Revised or AA50 ?

ugh, still stuck in the past, disregard that