@Eqqman said in How does Russia stay alive in KJF?:
@aardvarkpepper said in How does Russia stay alive in KJF?:
@Eqqman - I don’t mind if you edit your posts. But you gotta understand sometimes I’ll be writing responses to stuff you edited out or whatever. Like how Imperious Leader addressed your saying Germany buys a carrier and stacks Norway to threaten invasion of London, and now I think you edited your statement about that out.
My edit actually just added new content, originally I was only focusing on your insistence on being the Donald Trump of the A&A world (personality-wise, not as regards any alleged ability to accomplish anything past, present, or future). I get the idea you prefer to focus on discussing facts, but the medium of the message does matter. Something I don’t get is how you feel people will listen to the portion of your message that is worth hearing when you go out of your way to deliver it in as insulting a manner as possible. I actually feel bad for you as I can’t help but point out that nobody else (as far as I know) was publicly willing to join you in a game when you were looking for an opponent in the Steam forums. These two things are likely connected.
In the future I’ll try to just make new posts rather than add to existing ones if I think I left something out, sorry for any confusion I may have caused. Since your main reply is another massive wall of text I haven’t read it all yet and will have to put it off for when I’m in a more snark-tolerant mood.
Kid, you say I’m Donald Trump or whatever (in a derogatory way), then you come at me for writing a “text wall”? What? You think I should write MORE text to be polite? That takes more words. Make up your mind. You want polite? Or short? 'Cos I don’t do both. And I should be polite but it’s okay for YOU to be rude? Nah. What have you brought except some ill-defined questions and some insults? You get the respect or disrespect you earn. Applies to me - and to you too.
As for your insinuation that I’m unpleasant therefore nobody wants to play with me - any regular on Steam forums knows I’m going to push the complete line when I write commentary. Way I figure it, most people are indifferent and don’t want to bother writing, and for the few that ARE interested, they don’t want their “secret sauce” getting out or something. Though the board game’s eight years old.
When you want to respond to the stuff I wrote about specifying you’re doing 1942 Online (so can’t use allied carriers among other issues), or specify your criteria, strategy, and tactics, that’s your lookout. 'Till then.
Intuition isn’t good for explaining things.
As to assuming your reply was flippant or whatever, that’s something you’re bringing to the table, not me.
“Successful in (your) results” means nothing unless the meta is strong.
Calculation - there’s what most people mean, then there’s what I mean. Probably you calculate the probable results, maybe even generate some sort of twin-peaked curve. Maybe you even look at graphs for the counters. But do you calculate the coordination, the timing, the contingencies, not just for the current turn, not just for the following round, but for the entire game, start to finish? Probably not.
I’m not saying Black Elk does all that either - or that I’m in agreement with everything Black Elk writes. But he DID make a few good observations in some posts on Steam - such as Japan’s dropping to Yunnan being the fastest route for transported units from Japan to push Moscow. Maybe for you that goes without saying, but it’s exactly that sort of reasoning and explanation that’s fundamental to analysis and calculation. Just “knowing” isn’t the same as explaining in context of discussion.
Do even I run the complete numbers on a game? No. But there’s a difference between a purely intuitive approach that can’t be explained, and a purely calculated approach that can be explained, and I lean towards the latter.
@Imperious-Leader said in How does Russia stay alive in KJF?:
The new deal has UK building a Factory on UK 2 or 3 if they go KJF so they can shuck 5 tanks or land units toward FIC. Germany needs to build the Carrier and 1 more transport ( G1-2) in central medd so with the Battleship they can beat UK or take her factory in Egypt. The Allied standard is still for UK factory in Borneo, take out the DD and AP on UK1, and USA takes Philippines and makes her own factory in a few turns.
My INTUITION is it just doesn’t work that way. If you redefine the case and add some stipulations - sure, I could see it then. But then you need to define those stipulations. You hand that package to a kid as-is, they’ll just put an eye out.
You say limited time, I say limited time. You don’t have the time to explain everything, I don’t want to explain everything. Maybe we can both agree to avoid a discussion that isn’t actually necessary - if we agree that what’s written in that quote can’t just be taken at face value, that there’s (a good deal) more to it than just that.
Fair enough?
@aardvarkpepper
For calculation- im looking a few turns down the road, but certainly not the end of the game because being a game of chance in addition to strategy its not possible to predict outcomes precisely. If you think you can for " the entire game, start to finish? "… your only fooling yourself. Anybody can be diced.
BTW what is your win %? and how many games have you played on line?
What is your steam number?
What i wrote isn’t a “i do this and the outcome is exactly that” That’s ridiculous! It was for most readers to see the basic path and the exact path is entirely based on the exact situation. But in many KJF games that is the basic plan to follow in order to combat KJF.
What do you do as the Axis, especially Germany to fight the Allied grab of the Japanese money Islands and fleet buildup? Instead of fighting words and arguing with empty hands, what basic plan do you propose?
I think my steam ID is 2799…
Also, COW is #2 in ranked play and i tried to get him to comment by PM but to no avail.
Another thing you must consider is you might be playing an entire side by yourself. You can fluff up a story about calculation but a real game is 4-5 DIFFERENT PLAYERS which is the only game i play. When your dealing with people who have different experiences and have different ideas on how to conduct the various factions, you cannot calculate! Its just too easy to control say three Allied powers in perfect synchronization with each part working in exact harmony. But this is not Axis and Allies!
It is the very adaptable ability to alter and reform the contingencies as the game unfolds because it is a social game…not Chess.
If a player buys all Armor when the position calls for Artillery and Infantry— and that player gets diced, my plan is disrupted and i have to compensate and together we need to regroup. Ideas need to in low gear before returning to high.
I think a game where you, me, and black elk are in the same game would address all the nonsense.
Wait a minute… WAIT JUST A MINUTE. I played and beat you twice a while ago! What are you talking about son? Unless you got a doppelganger— your out of luck son.
@Imperious-Leader said in How does Russia stay alive in KJF?:
Anybody can be diced.
That has nothing to do with what I was saying.
@Imperious-Leader said in How does Russia stay alive in KJF?:
I have limited time to post a detailed reply
Same for me. I won’t even try to pre-emptively address any and all possible misunderstandings.
When I say everything can be calculated and that there’s “correct” and “incorrect” play - I thought I didn’t have to mention it’s possible to make the CORRECT play yet LOSE because of dice. That should just be understood. And of course a player should have contingencies and NOT force the issue if the calculation is the odds will shift more in their favor next turn if the status quo continues etc. - it’s not purely dice.
All I’m really saying is the game should be played smart - and that it CAN be calculated.
If you go on manufacturing things and say that I’m saying them, we’ll be here a long time, yeah? Misunderstandings happen, but so far you’re saying that I’m accusing you of being flippant and that I don’t understand it’s a dice game. Which - hey. Those are pretty big, and I’m saying they’re not the case. I even went back to read my posts to see if maybe I’d typed something even by accident that could come off that way, but I didn’t see anything like that.
@Imperious-Leader said in How does Russia stay alive in KJF?:
What i wrote isn’t a “i do this and the outcome is exactly that” That’s ridiculous! It was for most readers to see the basic path and the exact path is entirely based on the exact situation.
I said we can agree what you wrote can’t be taken at face value. But you want to disagree with that? Very well. We’ll take that up then. But first - you’re characterizing as “ridiculous!” that readers should get precise instructions. Not only readers, though - readers that don’t have the background.
So let me get this straight. For readers that don’t know what you’re talking about, you want to have nebulous definitions and lack of precise instructions and leave them to fill in the blanks. But they can’t fill in the blanks or they wouldn’t have needed to ask the question in the first place. If someone says they don’t have the time to explain everything, all right. If someone says a long explanation might be confusing, all right. If someone wants a table of contexts, editing, revision, and all - all right. (Just so long as they’re not really EXPECTING it of someone that’s not getting paid to do that job . . .). But to say that it’s “ridiculous!” that an explanation actually explain things - that’s a step too far.
@Imperious-Leader said in How does Russia stay alive in KJF?:
BTW what is your win %? and how many games have you played on line?
What is your steam number?
What would I get out of playing you?
@Imperious-Leader said in How does Russia stay alive in KJF?:
being a game of chance in addition to strategy its not possible to predict outcomes precisely. If you think you can for " the entire game, start to finish? "… your only fooling yourself.
Again, nothing to do with what I’m saying.
Take a step back and think. How do casinos make money? They don’t need to “predict outcomes precisely” - yet they’re profitable businesses. Why? Because. Are they “fooling themselves” because they can’t predict the “entire game, start to finish”? I would HOPE you wouldn’t claim that. Well then. Must I go on, explaining things I’m sure you grasp quite well? You’ve asked me to extend you the courtesy of not assuming you’re an idiot, perhaps you’d care to extend the same courtesy - which I don’t insist on. But certainly I’m not going to waste a lot of my time knocking down straw men someone else is setting up, you know?
What do you do as the Axis, especially Germany to fight the Allied grab of the Japanese money Islands and fleet buildup? Instead of fighting words and arguing with empty hands, what basic plan do you propose?
https://steamcommunity.com/app/898920/discussions/0/2280456883462680928/?ctp=3
I mention Germany’s play, I mention Japan’s play, I talk about what someone was saying was a workable KJF plan - which with tweaks on the BOARD GAME VERSION might work but not in 1942 Online without use of allied carriers - same stuff I’ve been saying for months, you see how it plays out a bit there.
Which reminds me, I should tap baron Munchhausen about his post on anti-KJF. Yeah, I’ll do that in a bit. Anyways -
It’s a lot of text. But basically it’s G1/G2 infantry build into G4 push of Ukraine, J4 fighter reinforcement, normally that can’t be broken, Axis Ukraine stack simultaneously threatens W Rus and Caucasus, Russia doesn’t normally have the numbers to defend both. Then there’s a few different lines - either Germany takes its Karelia and Ukraine stacks and unites at W Rus then shifts to Caucasus (but only if the Allies can’t do much to reinforce Russia via Karelia-Archangel, or Germany pushes West Russia then cracks Russia (unlikely if Allies are competent but it does happen), or Germany uses one stack to defend and uses the other to weaken Russia’s stacks to the point Japan can crack it.
Meanwhile Japan builds so it ends J1 with 4 transports, then drops 2 subs a turn starting J2 after seeing the US1 Pac fleet drop, rest go to 6 ground units (typically 4 inf 2 art). After Japan’s waters are interdicted against building new navy (if US main fleet is in range new Japanese naval builds get blown up for little cost), Japan switches to fighters, and depending on situation goes bombers for an India timing
Though the line diverges drastically after some UK East Indies attacks (@Imperious-Leader ) that wasn’t the line you were discussing. Depending on the timing and commit and Japan’s progress, Japan switches up its buy to defend Pac some on later turns, yet still cracks India and takes a chunk of Russia’s territory.
If it’s the BOARD GAME none of that works because UK can pop UK fighters on US carriers, which extends UK air threat range, which can change Japan’s necessary fleet composition, plus accelerates US’s timeline. But 1942 Online doesn’t allow use of allied carriers. Which goes back to the point I made to the OP that the thread title should specify this is for 1942 Online, which is DIFFERENT from the board game.
Variations for US - it can try to drop from Alaska to Asia (efficient but slow), push Borneo / New Guinea (probably too late). If US pushes more fleet, it can push Japan’s fleet back temporarily but Japan’s building fighters on Japan and having India as a “safe” zone to build plus a good number of units in Asia prevents any really meaningful gains. If US pushes more transports, it doesn’t have the fleet for a longer time. And every turn of delay has Axis progressing against Russia.
@Imperious-Leader said in How does Russia stay alive in KJF?:
What do you do as the Axis, especially Germany to fight the Allied grab of the Japanese money Islands and fleet buildup?
To answer explicitly - pretty much who the **** cares. TECHNICALLY my answer is Japan builds up to prevent early cheap US push that can’t be punished, switches to air that can continue pressuring Russia that US can’t punish that also contributes to defending Japan, then after Germany finishes up with Russia, Japan moves its gigantic air force back to the Asian coast and builds carriers on India, then Axis have an income, logistics, and unit advantage so that’s pretty much game.
Look, I’m not trying to sell a hype train. I’m not trying to say “check out this keewlll strat by aardvark, the world’s foremost analyst axis and allies (like follow subscribe!)” Real talk. If Bernard looked at the game, he’d cut me down like . . . I don’t know, flan, if he were serious. Which he probably wouldn’t be. Hobbes probably would kill me too. The board game’s eight years old. Everything I’m writing is - if someone else didn’t write it somewhere on these forums, probably some other forums, probably some discussion somewhere. I really don’t think what I’m writing is a big deal. But when I say it’s not really easy in the 1942 Online setup without use of allied carriers for Allies to make a meaningful press in time, that’s just what I mean. Nothing more, nothing less, egos whatever.
@Imperious-Leader said in How does Russia stay alive in KJF?:
I think my steam ID is 2799…
Also, COW is #2 in ranked play and i tried to get him to comment by PM but to no avail.
I don’t care about COW or whatever. Though I’ll comment - I’ve never played him, I have no particular reason to disrespect him, and from what I’ve read, he gives good (though I’d say incomplete) advice - yet not advice that would easily be misleading.
Only player I’m interested in atm is Il_Principino. About eight others I wouldn’t mind playing a few more times with, to see what I think of their play.
(edit - per djensen’s moderation 30 Sept 2020, deleted comments)
Yea i don’t reply to walls of text. But i reply to this:
“What would I get out of playing you?” LMFAO
That’s the first and last sign of total defeatism. Since im 2-0 you might make it 2-1? but your attitude would make it 3-0 and instead of walls of texts perhaps the three or four of us can all play a “kids game” and based on your time constants still allows you to write the Bible’s worth of words, but clearly avoiding a game.
LMFAO!!! I love ridiculous people!
Son— just add me to your friends list and after your ego repairs, you might be up for a game. Perhaps we all play the same side?
I don’t know what it is with people who avoid playing the same game against the same people they post about some rubbish about. Instead its all about how much you can post. I would be afraid of Cow in a game but nobody has really messed me up except the “tit for tat” dice server.
And what you call EGO talking on these forums, we call Successful. Thanks.
(edit - per djensen’s moderation 30 Sept 2020, deleted comments)
@aardvarkpepper you have great insights buried in your texts, but it would be nice if you would prove yourself on the ranked ladder, or in the upcoming 3rd community tournament: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSexzaLIOUJ0iit-RZJt-qVNSbeAgpACQJR9PskmXr1LgAgNng/viewform?usp=sf_link
He was ranked in season 1 in silver or gold (about #3-5) when i beat him twice. However, ranked play is bogus because its only 1 vs. 1 and that’s not Axis and Allies because its a team game and everybody is bringing something different to the table and you have to adapt to changing conditions
@Tahweh said in How does Russia stay alive in KJF?:
@aardvarkpepper you have great insights buried in your texts, but it would be nice if you would prove yourself on the ranked ladder, or in the upcoming 3rd community tournament:
Winning doesn’t “prove” things. The winner’s just the best and/or luckiest of whoever happened to show up. Even the winner can’t just take it easy. There’s always some whatever upstart that wants to “prove” themselves. People that get beat say it was just luck even if you literally take them through step by step and show them exactly what they did wrong including a full analysis with all the numbers. It all changes nothing, so why bother?
Some communities are different, sure. But 1942 Online’s community is very much um . . . not.
Besides, I don’t even care to try for the title of “best”. I know people that have far superior analytical skills that I’m sure would beat me handily if they applied themselves. But they just can’t be bothered. So it’s like . . . what would it matter to me if I won all seasons and all tournaments against whoever? To me none of that matters, it’s just a few players that I’m interested in “beating”. Even then, for me “winning” or “losing” is just a byproduct of games played to find optimal lines.
To be fair, I should admit I have certain abilities so players that beat me on merit I’d probably at least pull even with in the long run. But I don’t consider that a matter to boast about, because it comes down to most just don’t care to put in the work in the field over time - just as I wouldn’t put in the time to really master League of Legends or something. You put in the time, you do the work, you get the paycheck, that’s just life, nothing to get excited about.
(edit - per djensen’s moderation 30 Sept 2020, deleted comments)
If you want to give advice that can actually be used for anything, you’ll have to be specific somewhere down the line or you’ll be called on it. If not from me here and now, someone else some other time.
@aardvarkpepper Rank over time corrects for factors such as luck, and is a good estimator of overall skill. Plus it gives you opportunities to play the best players on the ladder
@aardvarkpepper said in How does Russia stay alive in KJF?:
What I SEE is someone not talking about UK IC in Egypt. Again.
Is that the “successful” you’re talking about? Successful dodge is successful?
Have no idea what these statements mean. Successful was beating you twice. Successful is not avoiding giving out your steam ID so anyone can verify your record. Successful is knowing what to do and executing it depending on various conditions that different players bring to the table.
We are waiting for YOUR STEAM ID buster.
@Imperious-Leader said in How does Russia stay alive in KJF?:
We are waiting for YOUR STEAM ID buster.
oh it’s “we” now
and you’re still not commenting on that UK Egypt IC
also it’s weird that you keep saying you’re better but you’re focusing on me so much
"oh it’s “we” now
and you’re still not commenting on that UK Egypt IC
also it’s weird that you keep saying you’re better but you’re focusing on me so much"
It’s WE because everybody is wondering why your so afraid to give it out so somebody could scrutinize it because its probably a really sad record of failure.
And i can comment on IC egypt and once the German fleet is dispatched and UK gains upon the German starting army in Libya, it’s sensible to build a factory and start churning out tanks to finish off afrika and head to FIC. Whats the problem with that and why you think otherwise as a basic KJF plan for UK?
Im focusing on you because you put up walls of text but know nothing about 42.2 and have the failure to prove it.
Any other questions before you submit that steam ID so anyone can see what you are doing here?
(edit - per djensen’s moderation 30 Sept 2020, deleted comments)
And your STEAM ID THAT EVERYBODY IS WONDERING WHY YOU DON’T POST…
Instead we get a wall of text and another avoidance, when i addressed the topic you don’t know about
Can we just get your steam ID? and why cant we?
And all i ask is your steam ID… that is not uncivilized unless you changed the definition. Lets hear your “extremely detailed plan for UK in Afrika” as opposed to the mine, and how you cope with 2 other Allied players on your team who may not be listening to any text notes during the game??
Here’s your chance for redemption
Oh and what was your steam ID unless you want to continually hide from anybody here looking it up-?
Oh snap if you post your steam ID you might win this:
Post your username and player id for Axis & Allies Online games
Prizes (US and maybe Canada)
Axis & Allies & Zombies
Axis & Allies & Zombies
Axis & Allies 1942 Second Edition
Planes and Pilots Volume 1: The Messerschmitt Me109 book
Planes and Pilots Volume 5: The P-51 Mustang book
Prize Pack One x5
Italian units from Field Marshal Games. Some of the tanks have turrets that move!
American units from Historical Board Gaming (HBG)
IPCs from HBG
Prize Pack Two:
5 different packs of roundels from HBG
IPCs from HBG
Roudel coasters from HBG
More prize to come
Prizes (North America & Europe)
To Be Determined
Am i to infer the site creator is “uncivilized” for asking you to post your steam ID? You see its not a big deal. Please just do it.
