🎲😢 PRNG dice support group — and ranting

[Spectacular_Vernacular]

@DrSfloon thanks for the contributions! I really like the 3 sided dice comments.

If you’re on discord, you’re more than welcome to hop into a server the community has setup. https://discord.gg/45Cxbcg

Psst we have dice emojis

[Imperious Leader]

This post is deleted!

[DrSfloon]

Is there any way to flag up a game to some kind of devs to look at?

I’ve essentially been completely been rolled off this one game where my opponent’s forces literally “hit everything in sight”. The combat that initiated it was one where I really think it’s a suicide attack like 95%+ of the time. Not only did the attack succeed, but it did so in combination with me being smashed in the retaliatory attack from me. Both times (and other smaller attacks elsewhere during those two rounds have meant that a game that was completely in control and I would even say winning advantage is lost in the space of a round and the only way I can think I made a mistake was to try a consolidate a fleet at a key position. I never resign after a run of bad rolls, but in this case there’s just now way back. The Japanese position in the pacific can be very fragile to this kind of thing. It’s round 5 and all I have left is 14 infantry/artilleries lol. All fleet and aircraft. The position just looks bizzarre. The round before this last round Japan earned 47 IPC and I wasn’t worried about anything in the position. The only mistake I can think of is that I should have set the Japanses subs to be saved until after a round of combat for submerging. I would normally do it, but it feels like literally a billion to one shot how all of it combined in one round to shonk a dominating position. Is there some way people cheat? Because I can’t think of anyone normally doing the intial attack.

[DrSfloon]

But yeah the 3 sided dice. Sometimes that’s what it’s like. Either a 1,2,3 dice or a 4,5,6. But some of this crazy rolls stuff is not the exception but the rule! Especially the consistency of single unit defensive hits.

[Spectacular_Vernacular]

They take bug reports at https://beamdog.atlassian.net/servicedesk/customer/portal/3 . Not sure how they respond in the case of reporting bad dice as bugs. Never tried it.

[djensen]

They’ve done a bunch of statistical analysis. I think the only way to make it “better” would be to do whatever online gambling sites do … but that’s costs money. Do you want to front that?

But forum rules still preside, no personal attacks. And no ad hominem at the Beamdog developers. You can express frustration without name calling.

Basically this thread is “old man yelling at cloud” when you get some bad dice online.

[DrSfloon]

Yeah but the point is, it should be "bad `online dice’ " than “bad dice online”.

[Eqqman]

If there is a bug, I wonder if it might be that whatever twiddles the dice rolls so that a player can’t lose the tutorial battles is not disabled in the main game.

[Eqqman]

Having played this a bit now I think the complaints seem overblown. The amount of “bad” rolls doesn’t seem out of line with what I might experience in real life. I think most of these issues are psychological as the importance of the roll matters more when the attack or defense was critical to you. For example the very first SBR attack in this game I did, the defending AA shot down my Bomber, which of course starts to immediately make me suspicious of the dice as emotionally we feel anything with a 49% chance or less shouldn’t happen. You’re likely to overlook all the times things went heavily in your favor when it was irrelevant- like having everything on your side hit when you are moving a stack into a spot with one defender, or having no enemy defenders hit when you are sniping off single pieces. The DEI attack is also a 2/3 chance, so you should still expect to see wins here a lot if players do it consistently. And while losing a battle at 98% odds of victory really stinks, the 2% loss chance is still a chance. People win the lottery all the time.

[Imperious Leader]

And do you have at least 150 games played?

[Imperious Leader]

Also, my complaint is that the dice perform a “tit for tat” in combat.

I miss
They miss
I hit
they hit
i miss
they miss

And usually on the way out when its the last enemy unit, it will hit.

and nearly always if you got overwhelming force, the enemy will force you to “pay the toll”

from which if the total value of the enemy is say 6 IPC, during combat they will exact 2 hits overall

It is a tendency. it may not happen 100%, but the average is what im speaking about.

[Eqqman]

@Imperious-Leader said in 🎲😢 PRNG dice support group — and ranting:

And do you have at least 150 games played?

Nope, nor would I need to if the RNG was really as broken as claimed. I haven’t seen the behavior you describe of one side always guaranteed to get a hit if the other does. The battles where I send in overwhelming force to clean out 1 - 2 units wins with no losses in line with probability.

Your struggles more than likely actually confirm that the RNG is fine. If all rolls for all players have a nice distribution curb, then somebody is going to lie on the lower end where they feel ganked all the time. Nobody wants to be Hurley from LOST and there’s no way to say the game would ever switch to feeling right for you. Flipping tails 1,000 times in a row doesn’t mean you can’t get tails again on the next flip.

Growing up my father would always gripe about the ‘law of averages’ and imply the universe was against him if he lost too much family game night. Sadly that isn’t how probability works. If you’ve been ganked 1,000 times you can get ganked 1,000 more.

[Imperious Leader]

Well i suggest you get more games under your belt and have a look. I play every day since day one and have an acute familiarity with these results. And in spite of the dice, i win anyway. I’m just pointing out something some people who don’t play often have an opinion of. I know how probability works. I’m saying the dice roller algorithm isn’t exactly set up right. You do know there are different ones right? This game just happens to use the wrong one. Its no different than the dozens of alterations the game has gone thru, with glitches and many odd occurrences that the developers deny is a problem, then magically get fixed on the next patch. And if you want to try its still very hard to take the Artillery from Philippines on a transport for one example. Other examples were skipping of phases. nice.

[Eqqman]

@Imperious-Leader -shrug- if you want to say the game’s RNG is broken based on your sample size of 1 player’s data you’re not going to be convinced otherwise, so I won’t say any more on this topic, although if you’d like to start a separate thread with me where we play some games against each other so we can compare our rolling I’m happy to do that.

I’ve had plenty of swings on the dice, in the last 24 hours I had a game where I won the Ukraine attack as Russia with no losses at all and another where I lost a naval battle as the Japanese with 99% favorable odds (given that this was a giant attack with 15+ units). All of this is stuff that could easily happen in a real game. In the naval battle I could have retreated after the first turn when I saw nearly every unit missed but I went again thinking ‘well, I can’t whiff so badly twice in a row’ which of course is not how probability works and naturally I whiffed twice.

Separately, I was having a hard time too with the Transports but the customer service gave some pretty good instructions on how to deal with it, so it isn’t hard to get the units off the islands if you have the Transport pick up the unit rather than have the unit board the transport. I think I’ve seen elsewhere that some players complain about that system as it’s a bit slower than TripleA’s method, but at least it works reliably.

[Imperious Leader]

But its not. Many people are complaining about the roller. Hence the existence of this thread. Just play a few more games and come back. Also, my transport example is only ARTILLERY FROM PHILIPPINES. Not anything from anywhere.

[Pie eye gamer]

I KNOW RIGHT!?!?!? Sometimes it seems so broken almost to the point I can predict when its going to screw me. I wish there was some way to make sure the program is 100% random.

[djensen]

Oddly, I’m having the opposite experience now … dice that resemble real life. Sure there’s the crazy good or bad roll here and there but again, for me, it’s starting to feel like a real game. Maybe next week, I’ll think differently.

[BillyMack57]

I’ve only been playing a few months but one of the first things I noticed was the wild dice outcomes.Been gaming over 30yrs and never seen anything like this on such a consistant basis.You may flip a coin 1,000 times and have it come up heads and the next it still comes up heads but the people betting against you will probably break your hands!Reference classic movie ‘The Hustler’.

[Eqqman]

@BillyMack57 problem with this is the hands are getting cut off too late… going from 1,000 to 1,001 tails is unremarkable :).

[djensen]

I just want to be able to let people know the only reason they won is because I got diced. I’m in this game right now that I’ll probably have to abandon because the dice are terrible.