Good Cap(Allies) Vs Colonel S & Cap N(Axis) Anniversary 41

[Colonel_Sanders]

TripleA Turn Summary: Germans round 4

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II v3 1941, version: 1.7.0

Game History

Round: 4

    Research Technology - Germans

    Purchase Units - Germans
        Germans buy 1 aaGun, 2 armour and 7 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 0 techTokens; 

    Combat Move - Germans
        1 transport moved from 15 Sea Zone to 16 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from Egypt to Trans-Jordan
        2 infantry moved from Bulgaria Romania to 16 Sea Zone
        2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 16 Sea Zone to 15 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from 15 Sea Zone to Trans-Jordan
        1 infantry moved from Baltic States to Belorussia
        2 infantry moved from Baltic States to Karelia S.S.R.
              Germans take Karelia S.S.R. from Russians
        1 artillery moved from East Poland to Eastern Ukraine
        2 fighters moved from Baltic States to Belorussia
        2 fighters moved from Baltic States to Eastern Ukraine
        1 infantry moved from Baltic States to Belorussia
        1 bomber moved from Germany to Eastern Ukraine

    Combat - Germans
        Battle in Belorussia
            Germans attack with 2 fighters and 2 infantry
            Russians defend with 1 infantry
                Germans roll dice for 2 fighters and 2 infantry in Belorussia, round 2 : 2/4 hits, 1.33 expected hits
                Russians roll dice for 1 infantry in Belorussia, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Russians lost in Belorussia
            Germans win, taking Belorussia from Russians with 2 fighters and 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
            Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
        Battle in Eastern Ukraine
            Germans attack with 1 artillery, 1 bomber and 2 fighters
            Russians defend with 1 infantry
                Germans roll dice for 1 artillery, 1 bomber and 2 fighters in Eastern Ukraine, round 2 : 4/4 hits, 2.00 expected hits
                Russians roll dice for 1 infantry in Eastern Ukraine, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Russians lost in Eastern Ukraine
            Germans win, taking Eastern Ukraine from Russians with 1 artillery, 1 bomber and 2 fighters remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
            Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry

    Non Combat Move - Germans
        1 aaGun moved from Germany to France
        3 infantry moved from Germany to France
        3 armour moved from Germany to France
        1 bomber moved from Eastern Ukraine to Germany
        1 infantry moved from Germany to France
        3 infantry moved from Germany to Northwestern Europe
        1 artillery moved from Poland to East Poland
        1 infantry moved from Baltic States to East Poland
        1 infantry moved from Baltic States to Karelia S.S.R.
        4 armour moved from East Poland to Baltic States
        5 armour moved from East Poland to Karelia S.S.R.
        4 armour moved from Baltic States to Karelia S.S.R.
        2 fighters moved from Eastern Ukraine to East Poland
        2 fighters moved from Belorussia to East Poland

    Place Units - Germans
        1 aaGun, 2 armour and 7 infantry placed in Germany

    Turn Complete - Germans
        Germans collect 31 PUs; end with 31 PUs

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Russians regular : -0.67
Germans regular : 2.67

Savegame

[Colonel_Sanders]

TripleA Turn Summary: Germans round 4

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II v3 1941, version: 1.7.0

Game History

Round: 4

    Research Technology - Germans

    Purchase Units - Germans
        Germans buy 1 aaGun, 2 armour and 7 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 0 techTokens; 

    Combat Move - Germans
        1 transport moved from 15 Sea Zone to 16 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from Egypt to Trans-Jordan
        2 infantry moved from Bulgaria Romania to 16 Sea Zone
        2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 16 Sea Zone to 15 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from 15 Sea Zone to Trans-Jordan
        1 infantry moved from Baltic States to Belorussia
        2 infantry moved from Baltic States to Karelia S.S.R.
              Germans take Karelia S.S.R. from Russians
        1 artillery moved from East Poland to Eastern Ukraine
        2 fighters moved from Baltic States to Belorussia
        2 fighters moved from Baltic States to Eastern Ukraine
        1 infantry moved from Baltic States to Belorussia
        1 bomber moved from Germany to Eastern Ukraine

    Combat - Germans
        Battle in Belorussia
            Germans attack with 2 fighters and 2 infantry
            Russians defend with 1 infantry
                Germans roll dice for 2 fighters and 2 infantry in Belorussia, round 2 : 2/4 hits, 1.33 expected hits
                Russians roll dice for 1 infantry in Belorussia, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Russians lost in Belorussia
            Germans win, taking Belorussia from Russians with 2 fighters and 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
            Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
        Battle in Eastern Ukraine
            Germans attack with 1 artillery, 1 bomber and 2 fighters
            Russians defend with 1 infantry
                Germans roll dice for 1 artillery, 1 bomber and 2 fighters in Eastern Ukraine, round 2 : 4/4 hits, 2.00 expected hits
                Russians roll dice for 1 infantry in Eastern Ukraine, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Russians lost in Eastern Ukraine
            Germans win, taking Eastern Ukraine from Russians with 1 artillery, 1 bomber and 2 fighters remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
            Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry

    Non Combat Move - Germans
        1 aaGun moved from Germany to France
        3 infantry moved from Germany to France
        3 armour moved from Germany to France
        1 bomber moved from Eastern Ukraine to Germany
        1 infantry moved from Germany to France
        3 infantry moved from Germany to Northwestern Europe
        1 artillery moved from Poland to East Poland
        1 infantry moved from Baltic States to East Poland
        1 infantry moved from Baltic States to Karelia S.S.R.
        4 armour moved from East Poland to Baltic States
        5 armour moved from East Poland to Karelia S.S.R.
        4 armour moved from Baltic States to Karelia S.S.R.
        2 fighters moved from Eastern Ukraine to East Poland
        2 fighters moved from Belorussia to East Poland

    Place Units - Germans
        1 aaGun, 2 armour and 7 infantry placed in Germany

    Turn Complete - Germans
        Germans collect 31 PUs; end with 31 PUs

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Russians regular : -0.67
Germans regular : 2.67

Savegame

[The_Good_Captain]

@Colonel_Sanders I hate the feeling I’m calling a house rule on you, but as per the SZ 16 optional rule again:

"Dardanelles Closed to Sea Movement

In order to maintain its neutrality, Turkey closed the narrow straights linking the Black Sea and the Mediterranean,
permitting no naval passage by any belligerent nation on either side. No sea units may move into or out of sea zone
16, however air units may move through this sea zone freely. "

[The_Good_Captain]

I wouldn’t have used USA’s air force against the Italian tank otherwise.

[Colonel_Sanders]

I see. My interpretation of that rule is that sea units can not move through the straight. I thought we were treating each side of the strait as a separate sea zone. I would not have moved my infantry into bulgaria had i known your expectation was otherwise. It seems quite reasonable to me that a transport should be able to move off the coast of bulgaria to pick up troops there.

[The_Good_Captain]

@Colonel_Sanders @CaptainNapalm Damn, I was afraid of that. Welp, in my opinion, this game is tanked then. I’m okay with calling it here if you guys are.

[CaptainNapalm]

@The_Good_Captain @Colonel_Sanders Would those 2 German infantry going to Egypt instead, be a good compromise? Where would you like those 2 infantry, @Colonel_Sanders, if you can’t have them in Trans-Jordan? Maybe @The_Good_Captain would allow you to move them elsewhere, entirely, as you’ve had a couple turns misunderstanding the rule. I’d like to avoid scrapping the game, because we didn’t know a rule, but that is up to the two of you.

[CaptainNapalm]

For the record, I thought the same as my teammate. But the rule reads clear to me, assuming you are quoting correctly, that the two of us had the rule wrong.

[The_Good_Captain]

@Colonel_Sanders @CaptainNapalm

I posted this in the first game thread, but here is the source again:
https://axisallies.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/axis-allies-rules-anniversary-corrections-faqs.pdf

Also, I’ve posted about the lack of this optional rule in the TripleA map setup: https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/35563/triplea-a-request-from-a-player-to-a-designer
…so hopefully one of the TripleA guys releases a fix in the future.

Concerning our game, I don’t feel this can be fairly repaired easily or at all. It appears all of us are playing pretty immaculately and the amount of German infantry in that space (or lack thereof) has some pretty massive implications for either side.

[Colonel_Sanders]

Thanks for clearly explaining the rules and backing them up with your sources captain. I have played with the dardanelles straight being open to all units or closed to all units, but I have always treated it as 2 separate sea zones on each side of the straight. It’s a bit of a revelation to see this optional rule outlined as such in the FAQ. I was originally of the opinion to concede the game to you after coming to terms with this rule as you have played a great game so far. (I admit when you bought tanks and a fighter in russia followed by 2 factories for Britain our first game I thought you were gonna be a punter. Instead you have shown me some strategies that I have never seen with the allies that enriches my understanding of the game.) I will concede the game if you wish but after conferring with my teammate I have another proposal for you.

How do you feel about letting Germany redo its last turn and resuming the game.

All though not necessary I also request that you let me sub out the recently purchased italian destroyer for 2 infantry and and 2 ipc as that was all part of the naval strategy that hinged on controlling jordan for a turn. No worries if you aren’t inclined to agree to this.

Lastly I’ve never been accused of playing an immaculate game and I’m not sure how to take that as I feel I’ve already made a bunch of mistakes this time around. Thanks though :)

[CaptainNapalm]

This might clear up some of the confusion. The Triple A map is just poorly drawn. The actual map breaks the sea zone at the straits.

[CaptainNapalm]

Well, I don’t actually know where the straits are, but at least the sea zone seems more clear.

[Colonel_Sanders]

Yes the board does make it more clear. I pulled up my old spring 1942 board- that map is a bit more similar to the website and is the source of my familiarity with the house rule of dividing it into 2 sea zones. It does clearly show it as a single sea zone I will concede, i suppose I’m just used to playing the with southeast portion of that sea space as usable regardless of the straits.

Bit of a shame to abandon the game at this point. If you don’t want to try to salvage it somehow I could be up for a rematch- not sure what else to offer…

[Colonel_Sanders]

*southwest portion of the sea zone

[CaptainNapalm]

@Colonel_Sanders we just need to wait to see his response. There is no reason not to redo Germany’s turn. And changing Italy’s destroyer buy, is just if @The_Good_Captain is feeling generous.

[The_Good_Captain]

@CaptainNapalm @Colonel_Sanders

Well, I suppose I’m okay with refiring the game from the end of USA 2, i.e. start up from G3 as colonel sanders mentioned. There weren’t a lot of huge battles since that point, mostly just territorial exchanges. If that’s not too awkward for all concerned, I could roll with that.

Alternatively, I have no problem doing a full reboot. “Third times the charm.”

I feel both of you have the correct openers and purchases for each Axis power on turn 1. This is my 6th playing of 1941. Most of the time I played the Axis and had the same openers as you. In the game previous to playing these with you guys, one of my opponents said, “I guess you can’t stop Japan from taking India if they really want it.” And a few of his AnA pals agreed.

Obviously I disagreed but I needed to test it. I was/am using these games to test the feasibility of holding India. As a secondary goal, I’m trying to see what optional rules create the best balance without having to use houserules or a bid. And since you guys clearly aren’t “punters” either, I’m game for as many games as you like lol

[Colonel_Sanders]

fyi my offer was just to redo germanys 4th turn but I am fine picking the game up starting with germanys 3rd turn. I have a few items to do in the next hr but will proceed with this if there are no objections.

Interesting to hear you usually have played the axis GC. I would be interested in your opinion as to what optional rules make a balanced game out of this version. I was under the impression that the normal rules slightly favor the allies and closing the turkish straight seems to play more into the allies favor. I have always had an affinity for the “smash and grab” style of the axis but do enjoy playing the allies as well.

Lastly I would like to apologize to any punters who may read this and be offended by my previous off hand comments. hehehe

[CaptainNapalm]

No, I don’t want to go back an entire game round. Just redo Germany’s last turn, where they did the illegal move.

[The_Good_Captain]

@Colonel_Sanders @CaptainNapalm to roll it back one turn as opposed to one round will funk the game up pretty good though.

i.e. Colonel is still in a position he wouldn’t have put himself in… pffff. Iono…okay…sounds like you guys really wanna keep rolling along. Just let me know whatever you guys wanna do and I’ll go along for “shts and giggles” at this point, haha.

[Colonel_Sanders]

ok so it sounds like the closest thing to a consensus is for me to just redo g4. I’ll just live with the italian destroyer as a bit of a penalty for this whole fiasco.

thanks for accommodating me here as it seems my not understanding this optional rule has caused this whole issue.