Got it. That’s what I thought. Thanks Panther
The Red Tigers
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I am usually the axis and I usually dow J1 barring any kind of crazy Russia play in the Pacific. USA is extremely flexible in terms of buy / strategy. If you are going to make a play with russia that dedicates some units to africa, you better be prepared to make up for it quickly, because if Russia is dead and the UK pacific is dead and Iraq belongs to Russia… that is game over for Egypt and the VC win handedly goes the axis way in Europe.
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Right, my ideas for the Allies all hinge on defending Moscow at all costs. I am thinking that 5 American bombers plus most of Britain’s production will be enough but I haven’t tested it thoroughly to really say that with any confidence.
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Ichabod has experience against my USA bombers. :)
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I have never sent additional Russian units to the Pacific, however after reading this thread I think I may give it a go.
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Our group used the bomber death move with great success. It definitely makes J2 a lot worse for Germany. When 10 bombers show up on US3 to England we found that Germany does a real quick look back. This works very effectively with a large transport build by UK. Moving all US troops to Nova Scotia USA4 load up on UK transports and begin to build your own loaded army. You end up with one going to Gibraltar and one going to London. Instant reinforcements when you are ready to rock on to Europe.
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I changed my mind, China is indeed a sideshow, and it will be ignored by experienced players that see all Allies getting into China.
Also if Russia wants to challenge Germany it needs all its airforce and initial units. The 18 siberians stay in the North and can be reinforced eventually or attack Japan for some extra time.
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China probably isn’t worth Russia’s best units. When Japan is running wild, China is just pushed to the ropes and they cant accomplish much, except to further preoccupy Japan.
On the other hand, the ideas about saving some money up, or making a defensive node in China (Yunnan) aren’t bad either. If you can threaten to do these things, you may force Japan’s hand as far as placement goes as they try to predict for where you are going to form up. Sacrificing the Chinese infantry for nothing is a big loss in this game just like losing the Russian 20. You can force Japan to choose to attack India or finish China off but perhaps he cannot do both.
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Japan has the ultimate goal of diminishing and or destroying both the Chinese, and UK armies in the pacific. Japan will never successfully take mainland US (unless of course you are playing an inexperienced player), and occasionally they will make a push for Sydney, although they don’t pose a very serious threat. Japan will make most of its income from the “Money Islands” and mainland Asia. The sacking of Calcutta places Japan in a great strategic field. By eliminating the UK in the pacific, Japan can then focus on its navy, and protecting its assets, while expanding its expeditions to either Hawaii, or Sydney.
Now China plays an extremely important role during this entire process, as China can delay or even prevent a Japanese mainland conquest. China as everyone knows plays the game through gorilla warfare tactics. Eventually, this cannot be sustained, as they lose the Burma road, and cannot collect enough IPCs to effectively defend the Japanese advance. Japan will either decide to crush the Chinese forces, or bypass them (while holding on to the Yunnan territory). China however has another option as outlined in this thread. Russia can effectively defend China in the Yunnan territory, resulting in a flow of Chinese units continuously turn by turn. Even assuming that China has only three IPCs, with a 6 bonus, they can place 3 units every turn. Russia can afford to use a few of its units, assuming there is a large number of Allied aircraft landing there to support it. It has also been pointed out that the Russian aircraft can make it back to Russia by turn 6 giving Yunnan 2 turn of additional defense. This gives China enough time to build a significant amount of infantry.
Now I say this because Yunnan is a vital territory for both Japanese and Allied forces in mainland Asia. If Japan retains control of it, it has a forwarding base for its units to make a push in any direction for the conquest of mainland Asia. It also chokes China from IPCs which eventually dwindles the already small army. If the allies retain control, China can begin to grow, and effectively keep Japan from taking many mainland IPCs. It also provides a territory for the UK to land planes, and to make an effective push for coastal territories.
Obviously using Russian forces in this way will not work every time (as you cannot predict the rolls of large battles). I will probably use this strategy once in a blue moon to change things up. The last thing I want to touch on, is that once these Russian units move into Japan on turn 1, they will be declaring war on Japan. This puts the Russian 20 in an interesting situation. They are most effectively utilized by defending. Make Japan attack them. Japan knows that the Mongolian pact is a bust, ensuring that they wont spawn 6 additional Russian units in the north. Even if you lose all 20 units, you are delaying an inland push by the Japanese for at least 1 turn, and you should* kill about 6-7 units assuming your rolls fall within the odds.
Of course this is just my opinion, and like I said, I will use this tactic once in a while. It should be effective enough to stop an ill-prepared Japanese.
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I suppose that’s the question; are you changing the game R1 by putting your 2 best planes there? Yes, but Japan will still attack, because of what’s at stake. So you didn’t change much. R2 you have some different choices, probably better ones (stack everything you built into YUNNAN and THEN stack the UK and Russia onto to that), but still, you have to make something of the fact that Japan didn’t take over that very small and insignificant area of the board.
Some of your other comments about declaring war imply that there is something else at stake for the Russian 20–the diplomatic declaration of war changes nothing, so it doesn’t incentivize or dissuade Japan from attacking (or not) in any way. The Mongolian rule is implicated only when you attack a territory adjacent to Yunnan Rus/Jap, so if that didn’t occur, the declaration itself changes nothing (it just allows you to put Russians in the 12-15 Chinese territories, that’s all)
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I think you are overlooking the importance of Yunnan. I did make the mistake of not clarifying that the Russian tank and mech along with 3 planes would move into Yunnan on turn 2. These 5 units along with additional Chinese units, and a small UK force would be able to hold Yunnan even against a large mass of planes. If China is allowed to consistently spawn a solid number of units, they become uncontrollable for Japan. The great thing is, the Russian planes, and UK planes that are in the Pacific can reach Calcutta for defense, Yunnan for defense, and then within 2 turns, Russia for defense when or if needed.
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^ I do this often, I prefer as USA, to send help faster with handful of bombers to Russia, since it makes it in time to defend against a big showdown… Sometimes Japan is crazy enough to attack into it because they know those forces are what holds Russia.
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@Cow:
^ I do this often, I prefer as USA, to send help faster with handful of bombers to Russia, since it makes it in time to defend against a big showdown… Sometimes Japan is crazy enough to attack into it because they know those forces are what holds Russia.
Yea Germany will be in the Japanese players ear to hit that $hit asap. Taking out 4-5 Russian planes and a few UK planes would lead to a much easier and earlier conquest of Moscow. Yea Japan would take a hit but once that multi national force is off the board Japan can refocus taking the rest of China and threaten India by land and sea. They could even skip India and threaten Persia/Egypt/S Africa helping w/Euro win.
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