German Naval Build Round 1

[DarthMaximus]

Yep.

And Mad and NZ have no troops so that is 7 IPC that Germany doesn’t need to defend, which make up for Wrus, Nor, Alg and Lib.

@Amon:

@DarthMaximus:

And As Jen knows I like to sneak the German ships in the Indian Ocean to possibly claim Ind/Mad/Aus and Nz for the Germans.

you seem ambicious :wink:

The way I see it, Germany can’t keep its Med ships alive for that long.  So by rd 3 (if I still have them), I’m looking to get to somewhere safe and India or Mad make a good first target on G3 before the Allies can sink your BB and trn.

Sometimes India isn’t an option, but you can still pick up some nice IPC for Germany while keeping you BB and trn alive and not taking anything else out of Europe.  Plus there is always the hope to reland in Afr a little later, this time with Japan naval and ground support.

[Amon-Sul]

well Darth thanks

you ve expanded my views upon German naval strategy

have to try something like this soon

but not in the tourn. Jen, i promise :)

[Jennifer]

Gee, you have 3 aircraft carriers with Germany, why not? :P

Course, you did get all the way to Turn 6 without losing the Baltic fleet. =)  Forced England and America into buying a lot of ships they never really needed too!  SZ 5, IMHO is a waste for the allies unless the battle is so bloody one sided you’d be a moron not to attack it.

I prefer SZ 13 and SZ 4 and SZ 12.  That way I can shuttle troops all over North Africa, South Europe, Northern Asia and Scandinavia at will.

[Amon-Sul]

@Jennifer:

I prefer SZ 13 and SZ 4 and SZ 12.   That way I can shuttle troops all over North Africa, South Europe, Northern Asia and Scandinavia at will.

not if i go heavily with Kriegsmarine :wink:

[cyan]

if belo and wrussia were attacked then. land all fighters in reach of uk and  buy 5 trns. anyone every try this?

[Amon-Sul]

@cyan:

if belo and wrussia were attacked then. land all fighters in reach of uk and  buy 5 trns. anyone every try this?

an interestin move thats for sure

but hadnt try it though

i bought AC and 3 tra

[Romulus]

Spending all the IPC on naval units leave me with some doubts. It make me not feeling safe for the ebb and flow battles on the Eastern front
It means that Eastern front will get no significative reinforcement for two turns.
I know that initially German have not to advance there but also defending and trading territories requires infantry, and infantry is slow to arrive where it is needed.

When I spend on naval units in G1 I usually buy an AC in sz5 and 8 infantry.
The problem is that such a fleet may be a threat only up round 3, after allied have the air-naval power necessary to sink it, if they need to do.

Buying 1 AC and 3 TRN, the combination that I like more among the proposed possibilities, is interesting however, because sz5 navy may at least play the “fleet in being” role. UK may not leave Englad without an adequate defense and USA, probaby, would shuttle troops there.

[Amon-Sul]

@Romulus:

ebb

what is it

thanks

[Romulus]

The ebb is the “flowing back of the tide”.

So “ebb and flow” is a way to indicate the trading of the territories, amd the front line that go forward and go back each round.

It is not my invention, however, I read it somewhere, but I do not remeber where, right now.

[Amon-Sul]

@Romulus:

The ebb is the “flowing back of the tide”.

So “ebb and flow” is a way to indicate the trading of the territories, amd the front line that go forward and go back each round.

It is not my invention, however, I read it somewhere, but I do not remeber where, right now.

i see

[axis_roll]

@DarthMaximus:

Yep.

And Mad and NZ have no troops so that is 7 IPC that Germany doesn’t need to defend, which make up for Wrus, Nor, Alg and Lib.

@Amon:

@DarthMaximus:

And As Jen knows I like to sneak the German ships in the Indian Ocean to possibly claim Ind/Mad/Aus and Nz for the Germans.

you seem ambicious :wink:

The way I see it, Germany can’t keep its Med ships alive for that long.  So by rd 3 (if I still have them), I’m looking to get to somewhere safe and India or Mad make a good first target on G3 before the Allies can sink your BB and trn.

Sometimes India isn’t an option, but you can still pick up some nice IPC for Germany while keeping you BB and trn alive and not taking anything else out of Europe.  Plus there is always the hope to reland in Afr a little later, this time with Japan naval and ground support.

This was a relatively common move in classic/3rd edition (CD-Rom)….
mainly because UK would land ftrs in caucasus UK1 and the German Med fleet had no where to hide, do they’d run.

UK Ftrs can not make such a strike UK2 in Revised.  A big / little change in Revised, IMHO.

[DarthMaximus]

@axis_roll:

This was a relatively common move in classic/3rd edition (CD-Rom)….

Exactly.  :-D

[Guest]

If the SZ8 SUB survives to G2, it changes the dynamic of the Med Fleet significantly…

I also typed a post the other night that I apparently never hit send on…

I have spent from $0 to $24 on navy as Germany on G1.  I have placed that amount in SZ5 and 14, or in various combinations.  I can;t bring myself to spend more than $24 for German Navy…)

In the past 6-9 months, my win record is BETTER as the Axis without a G1 naval build than it is with ANY version of a G1 naval build…

[Romulus]

Switch your post sounds like a “de prufundis” (funerary oration) for the German naval strategies!

[Guest]

There are land powers, and there are naval powers.

Look at the game board before the start of R1 and you tell me whether Germany is a naval power or a land power…

Germany’s might is on LAND and in the AIR.  Against the US and UK, Germany’s NAVY bites.  They can potentially keep ONE of their fleets into the mid-game, but it takes pretty serious investment (starting with a carrier) of IPC’s AND a diversion of land units (land based FIGs).

Use the navy while it lasts to do max damage and/or gain max revenue, but never lose sight of the fact that the game is won or lost on land in Europe and Asia.

[Romulus]

I believe that!
Also my games as German are going better not buying the G1 AC.

The “problem” is that also my friends, when play Germany, do not buy the AC, and when I am Allied I am not happy of that!

[axis_roll]

@Romulus:

The “problem” is that also my friends, when play Germany, do not buy the AC, and when I am Allied I am not happy of that!

Depending on what Germany does with their land units (and their buy… like not all tanks)……

No navy in sz5 usually is a good chance for a KJF… which can be more productive as the allies as opposed to going power on power with Germany if she’s bought all inf G1 (or other ground units).

[newpaintbrush]

@Jennifer:

It’s been discussed before, but that was at least a year ago, maybe people have changed their minds?

Bid: 7, Infantry, Artillery to Libya

German 1 Builds: 2 Submarines, Transport, Aircraft Carrier  or 2 Aircraft Carriers, Transport

One transport to be built in SZ 14, the rest in SZ 5.

Are you pro, con, why?

Con.  Why?

Russia:  RAWR

[Jennifer]

Well, I know my proposed naval purchases on G1 might give Russia a tactical advantage for a round, but it will also seriously set the Allies back.  For one thing, England has to worry about Sea Lion.  That will mean no landings in Africa, and with no landings in Africa, the Ameircans will also not land in Africa.  + income for Germany

Also, with a fleet of that size, I do not think the allies can stop a fleet unification on G2.  That’s a pretty sizable fleet and if the allies do manage to over power it, they can move into the Med if they want.

Also, Russia’s only up 7 for W. Russia, Ukraine and Belorussia.  That’s Germany with 44 IPC on G1 and Russia with 31 IPC on R2.  You don’t think 44 IPC can push back against Russia when Germany starts with 100 IPC more in land units then Russia?

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Anyway, I think the trick here would be to resist the temptation to build any more fleet with Germany.  Yes, you’ll get pushed away or destroyed by England and America.  But not until Germany 3 or 4 probably, maybe as late as 6 or 7.  Meanwhile, Japan and Germany have been whittling away at the Russians and the English and Americans have been dedicating vast resources to Navy and Airforce to secure the Atlantic.

And, of course, the ability of Germany to give up on the Atlantic and move into the Med later, if they want too.  (Though, honestly, I might retrieve my fighters and let you sink the navy at that point.  Depending what my africa and my russia look like.)

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As for “ambitious” the most ambitious thing I’ve seen is Russia attacking Ukraine, W. Russia and E. Europe on Russia 1 and winning all three.  To me, that’s almost a death blow to Germany.  Germany’s down 33% of her fighters and Russia has 32 income to recover from.

[newpaintbrush]

@Jennifer:

Well, I know my proposed naval purchases on G1 might give Russia a tactical advantage for a round, but it will also seriously set the Allies back.  For one thing, England has to worry about Sea Lion.  That will mean no landings in Africa, and with no landings in Africa, the Ameircans will also not land in Africa.  + income for Germany

Germany does not have a real Sea Lion threat with only 2 transports.  I agree that Germany will hold Africa longer, which will contribute to the German income.  However, Germany will not necessarily dominate Africa for very long.

Also, with a fleet of that size, I do not think the allies can stop a fleet unification on G2.  That’s a pretty sizable fleet and if the allies do manage to over power it, they can move into the Med if they want.

I assume by “overpower” you don’t mean defeat in combat, but instead refer to outnumbering the German navy, forcing the retreat.  Yes, the German fleet can move to the Med.  However, the Allies can then establish their transport fleet from E. Canada to London, and from London to Archangel.  This almost directly reinforces Russia.  The Germans will have the Caucasus, but I don’t see Russia falling.  Even so, I think that’s the BEST case scenario for the Axis.  The other option for the Allies is simply to KJF, rendering most of that German spending moot…

Also, Russia’s only up 7 for W. Russia, Ukraine and Belorussia.  That’s Germany with 44 IPC on G1 and Russia with 31 IPC on R2.  You don’t think 44 IPC can push back against Russia when Germany starts with 100 IPC more in land units then Russia?

Frankly, no, I don’t.  It’s hardly as simple as that; the UK and US can reinforce Russia and attack Germany.  You can’t just ignore the UK and US.

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Anyway, I think the trick here would be to resist the temptation to build any more fleet with Germany.  Yes, you’ll get pushed away or destroyed by England and America.  But not until Germany 3 or 4 probably, maybe as late as 6 or 7.  Meanwhile, Japan and Germany have been whittling away at the Russians and the English and Americans have been dedicating vast resources to Navy and Airforce to secure the Atlantic.

Of course, the Allies COULD go KJF in response to that German expenditure.  But even if the Allies DO go KGF, the Allies should have quite a surplus of fighters.  Those surplus fighters not only threaten the German fleet; when the Allied airforce hits critical mass, BOTH Axis powers’ navies are in danger, and further, those fighters can help reinforce Russia.  Normally fighter reinforcement is not terribly effective, but considering that Russia should have more infantry (because of having more territory), and considering that the Axis spent a lot of IPCs on navy, I don’t see that the Axis would have any decisive ADVANTAGE in purchasing lots of navy on G1.  Were I forced to express an opinion, I would actually say that the Axis would have a considerable DISADVANTAGE were they to purchase lots of navy on G1.

And, of course, the ability of Germany to give up on the Atlantic and move into the Med later, if they want too.  (Though, honestly, I might retrieve my fighters and let you sink the navy at that point.  Depending what my africa and my russia look like.)

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As for “ambitious” the most ambitious thing I’ve seen is Russia attacking Ukraine, W. Russia and E. Europe on Russia 1 and winning all three.  To me, that’s almost a death blow to Germany.  Germany’s down 33% of her fighters and Russia has 32 income to recover from.

That’s horribly risky for Russia as well, though.  The odds that ALL battles are successful is not high.