Conservative Germany

The only problem with being conservative with Germany is that you really only have 5 rounds of play before you get your buttocks handed back to you in small pieces by the allies.

The 9 inf/art purchase I agree with, Darth. It sets up a good position to both defend France and start a consistent push. Armor behind it on turn two is your friend.

Axis has advantage in 1941. And big. Why risk when you are wining from the begining? A conservative approach is better for Germany, because axis starts with military advantage, and by round 3 or 4 as much they will have also economic advantage. There is no reason for being haste playing Germany.

Japan in the other hand has no way of being conservative. Just start eating all on your sight at pleasure. Yummy  :-D

I have to say, I’ve done a conservative opening with Germany twice now (yes, out of 70 games twice is not a large sample, sorry, I’m running out of opponents now that high schoolers and college kids are back in school!) and both times it has gone bad for Germany.

I have a 3rd game going with JWW but it’s already going bad for Germany.

I think the problem is that the balance really comes into play when you eliminate a lot of Russian units off the front and then kill off more when they try to retake some of the territories.  Without this attrition, you don’t have the wear-with-all to stop the Russians from walking into Warsaw (or worse, Berlin!)

I can’t compete! My first game is this weekend… so far I’ve played myself three times… life in rural America. I can only dream of 70 games…

However, I now vote for 7inf/2arm as a nice conservative start, but the addition of the 2 armor provides some relief to the front. I’m a big believer that it’s ok to spend armor on the front in some amount to meet your objectives. As always, with a KGF against you, Germany needs to clean out as many Russians as humanly possible to weaken them for Japan.

I think I am gonna have to agree with Bigdog.

Currently I am in 2 games, both as the Axis without bid. (Note that this is Revised, but in AA:50 it might even be better, considering the no’s)

I played a conservative Germany.

Result, in both games I am in control of Karelia, Belo, and UKR. There is even a fleet in the Baltic ( a small one) Japan is ready to take Africa, piss the hell outof USA by invading Vanada, setting up a IC in bRazil.

In both games, the future looks bright. The USA; Yes, they have a gigantic fleet in the Atlantic, but no units that they can put on land. And he needs those units to consolidate Canada.
UKhas some money (+20), jus enough to refuel its transports, which I will reduce in a round or 2 withe Luftwaff
And so on.

@Woodstock:

Currently I am in 2 games, both as the Axis without bid. (Note that this is Revised, but in AA:50 it might even be better, considering the no’s)

Revised and AA50 are not the same game.

It is pretty established that a heavy ground unit game plan for Germany is one of the better (if not preferred) German game plans in Revised.

@allies_fly:

@Woodstock:

Currently I am in 2 games, both as the Axis without bid. (Note that this is Revised, but in AA:50 it might even be better, considering the no’s)

Revised and AA50 are not the same game.

It is pretty established that a heavy ground unit game plan for Germany is one of the better (if not preferred) German game plans in Revised.

Funny thing is that in both games I Staarted with an AC buy, to secure the coast. So no heavy ground unit buy.
All I am saying is, if you can keep up with Germany and hold out till round 5, Japan should be pretty damn big, threatening USA and Russia at the same time. (UK should be no issue anymore with their 20 ipc)

I have only had the chance to play the game against opposition once and three times solitare.  I love this game.  Cmdr Jennifer has me convinced that an early try at Karelia is a valid strategy.  Unfortunately, my friend who plays the British as also read her posts. My friend plays very well when he is not surprised. So this is what I was going to try.

An Overwhelming attack on the Baltic, plus take East Poland and the Ukraine on turn 1.  Leaning heavily on the Italians I even transport an armor and an infantry from tghe med to the Ukraine. I hate watching my smug friend having a grand ol time in the Atlantic while Germany tries to defeat Russia before it is to late so that means  1 Bomber, 1 Fighter and a sub vs the British Battleship and transport. 1 sub and 1 F vs the destroyer in zone 6.  1 sub vs the Destroyer and transport off Canada.  If I am lucky I will get both transports, but I do expect to get at least the closest transport and the British Battleship.  I know this leaves the Italians in trouble, but I am counting on a U.S. obsessed with Japan, an overly cautious Britain and a defensive mind set in Russia.  Plus I my first build is a German Battleshiip and two infantry.

Now the RAF could go after the Italian fleet, but what about Germany’s fleet.  With no immenit threat of a Norway invasion, no transport, I move my infantry from Norway into Finland.  On turn two I can threaten Karelia with at least nine infantry, plus tanks and Fighters.  I am hoping that the German Baltic Fleet is intact.  Britain could attack my Battleship and Cruiser with two fighters and a Bomber and probably win at a heavy cost, but then the Italian Fleet would likely survive.  Off the three subs I had attacking in the Atlantic I expect one to survive.  I don’t expect my allid opponents to be comfortable letting one of my subs live.

If all goes as planned and the Baltic Fleet survives, then ON Turn 2 I should have 45 IPCs to spend.  I will spend 14 of them on a carrier and two of the Fighters attacking Karelia will land on it.  With Transport I can attack Karelia with 11 infantry, 4 tanks, 2 artillery, at least two fighters, probably 3 and a Bomber, plus bombard it with a cruiser and a Battleship.  That ought to take it.  Last game that meant goobye to 10 Russian infantry and an artillery piece.  With that accomplished I hope Britain will have something to scream about.  Unfortunately, the US could help them out and wreck my fleet.  But what I am  trying to do is to take Britain and the US out of their comfort zone and buy myself some time.

It seems to me that whatever the Germans do I can think of an allied counter eventually.  But until my friends get real comfortable at adapting to surprise, or Paul reads this, I will refrain from going all out for Egypt and Moscow starting with turn 1.  I don’t get a chance to play often and having the game decided on turn 1 doesn’t thrill me.  Of course it is worse to lose.  :-D

For Japan, I expect him to do whatever he has to, to stale mate the U.S. Fleet in the Pacific and spend the rest taking over China, Burma and India before launching an invasion of Russia.

@bigfoot:

So this is what I was going to try.

If I may play devil’s advocate, this is how I would counter with the Allies:

Russia
With Germany only spending $11 on land units the opening round, 5 infantry and 3 tanks to gain the early manpower advantage.  Not attack anywhere, retreat from Karelia to Archangel, bulk up Caucasus, and leave 1 infantry in each border territory.

On round 2, if Germany takes Karelia en masse, I would attack Ukraine with the 10-ish infantry/artillery in Caucasus, heavily pressuring the German homelands while the tank force is in Karelia.  On the other hand, if Germany only takes Karelia with a token force on round 2, Russia would happily play a cat an mouse game on the eastern front trading territories because Germany does not have reinforcements any time soon and will grind its army out.

Britain
Buy a factory for Egypt, surface ships, and a couple extra infantry to prevent the German invasion of Britain.  If Britain kills the lone German transport with Egypt’s fighter, moves in the Trans-Jordan infantry, and places a factory, Africa should be pretty secure.  With Egypt in a strong position, Italy would be largely ignored at the start.  I would build a fleet out of range of Germany’s Baltic fleet until round 3-4 or so when the British fleet roughly equals the Germany’s combined Baltic fleet/Luftwaffe attack - moving in for the kill at that point.

USA
Spend everything against Japan.  Russia should have the manpower to hold out for some time on the eastern front.

Okay, I have now done a conservative German opening enough times to say the following:

Conservative German play is akin to ripping the testicles off your husband and wondering why he can’t get you pregnant anymore.

due to that analogy, i’d be a killer strat. ppl get killed before born ;)

@atarihuana:

due to that analogy, i’d be a killer strat. ppl get killed before born ;)

Unfortunately they would be the people on YOUR side. hehe.  The enemy would still be pumping out babies like that woman who just gave birth to octuplets.  (She is a personal hero to me. :)  )

OOE says:

USA
Spend everything against Japan.  Russia should have the manpower to hold out for some time on the eastern front.

absolutely and this goes for any scenario really. Japan cannot be allowed to just run rampant in this edition without being threatened somehow and that threat needs to come from the US. To the point though,a conservative Germany in the first couple of rounds isnt a bad idea either. As a matter of fact it, I have done it and it worked out great. The Axis won that game resoundingly in a massive showdown between Germany and Russia…but thats another story.  :roll:

I agree that Japan cannot be ignored.

A good mix of Russians, Britains and Chinamen can really slow down Japan’s progress.

Italy also cannot just be “ignored” without dangerous repercussions.

@Cmdr:

Okay, I have now done a conservative German opening enough times to say the following:

Conservative German play is akin to ripping the testicles off your husband and wondering why he can’t get you pregnant anymore.

Yep.  Jen has declared it’s a dumb move.

End of discussion

lock this thread, there’s no further need to discuss.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

thats a dumb statement…

i’ve been going for the all-infantry buy on G1, just so i can get some infantry up to the front lines to take the losses instead of tanks, and also bolster my shore defences early. worked a treat the last 2 times i tried it

I agree, you need almost exclusively infantry buys with Germany to push into Russia.  By “conservative” or “defensive” it is implied you do not take any risks, you only make a few attacks, you hang back and turtle your country bolstering defenses in France, NW Europe, Poland and Bulgaria.

The alternative (the plan that works) is an all out frontal assault on Russia and grinding them into the dirt under the jack-boot of German infantry at a pace suitable to let Japan take Moscow about the time the allies have a serious ability to invade France (serious as in with more than one survivor.)

Honestly, the Axis has 5 rounds to secure the game.  After that, the allies will be recovered and in position. (Does not mean you will lose if you do not have domination of the board or control of Moscow, so please don’t assume that’s my position.)

As for Axis, well, I guess he’s a bit shell-shocked, he’s lost so many arguments to me in the past he does not even post a realistic response, only a personal attack on me.  I’m a girl, I’m used to men treating me like property and a nobody without a braincell to my name.  It’s okay.  Male chauvinism is alive and well. :)

@Cmdr:

I agree, you need almost exclusively infantry buys with Germany to push into Russia.  By “conservative” or “defensive” it is implied you do not take any risks, you only make a few attacks, you hang back and turtle your country bolstering defenses in France, NW Europe, Poland and Bulgaria.

I think this is a key phase and perhaps where the dispute is.  I don’t think a conservative buy necessarily would equal conservative play.
Germany starts with plenty of air and tanks to maintain a solid offense against Russia so Gemany can afford to go 9 inf, 1 rt (or 7 inf, 2 arm, 7 inf, 1 ftr, etc) then on G2 (with 45 ipc), you can go 1 bom, 8 inf, 1 rt, 1 arm (or 2 ftrs + inf, etc).  Kar either falls on G2 or G3 without much of a fight, why risk ftrs on G1 when you can get it for only a couple of inf and assuming you want to buy another ftr/or bom you probably won’t need the 12 spots for production yet.  That is why I kind of like to maximize on G1 with 10 units, then another 10 units on G2.  After that it is either 12 cause you own Kar or 13 b/c you maybe drop an IC on Pol b/c you can afford 10 inf + IC.

I guess you can consider it a German IPM.  Russia has too much to defend and not enough offense early, so larger G inf stacks is often enough to force the Russians back.