Subs - first strike than submerge?

@Battlingmaxo:

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I would like to point out that if you don’t have a destroyer in you attacking force the defender may choose to  submerge the subs in which casew you have your desired attack…ti piace?

I know, I know… Yeah, I like it, but I would prefer if I could choose… ;)

@Subotai:

To build any German naval units is usually not helpful, and kill UK first will only happen as an AAR sealion project, means it’s only doable against players who have not played the game before  and is learning…

If Germany is doing fine during the first rnds and builds IC in France, and if the Italian navy is not killed before rnd3-4, I can see Germany dropping naval units in the south if the fleet can survive, but a heavy German naval strat is doomed to fail against decent allied players, b/c Russia will be too strong.

That is why I think if you want to advocate something crazy like a Kill UK first, Italy is the country you really have to look at.  Germany has to attempt to sink all the UK navy and probably do a T1 naval build big enough to distract the UK from Italy (subs or a carrier most likley) after that is has to make sure to build 1 air unit a turn to send to the West (hopefully bombers to keep SBRing UK/ keeping US transports at bay), while Japan has to go HEAVY towards the WUSA and if it can spare it India and Australia, to try and keep US out of Africa and hopefully hit some UK IPC’s, also you may have to get that Japanese Carrier to the Med as fast as possible.  Italy then would have to pray it can win enough to secure Africa and build a fleet in time to seriously threaten the UK, probably take Brazil in the process too.  You have to do this and hope somehow someway Germany can still stave off Russia and Japan can make some mainland in roads.  I don’t think it’s a good strat, but it is the best I can think of.

And if you think that is too much of a long shot, the only other thing I can think of is to once again have the Japs threaten the US as much as they can while still hopefully having enough to gain ground in asia.  But instead try to hit with Germany. You still shouldn’t start off with Navel builds.  The Germans have to build air at 1st I think to try and clear the Brits.  Then if you can pull off a double hit with Italy/Germany on the UK.  I think this is a bit more far fetched to an already far fetched strat, but still if you want to try something crazy…

Honestly kill UK first is just way too difficult.  A kill America 1st strat would even be easier I think.  Now if you want to do a cripple UK strat and make them irrelevant, that is much much more feasible.

Also note that your british fighters dont get to shoot at the german sub at all, as you are not bringing a destroyer along with you.

makes sense, thanks kreig.

I think subs are underestimated…
I like them a lot more than the Cruiser for instance. The extra cost of 6 IPC’s doesn’t make up for the shore bombardment and extra punch.
Now, let’s take a look at their advantages:
-subs are CHEAP! 6 IPC’s for a naval hit is dirt cheap!
-subs are invulnerable to lone enemy aircraft => this allows them to swim around Europe/Pacific avoiding those German/Japanese ftrs.
-subs can’t attack airplanes, and apart from DD’s, other sea units are more expensive than airplanes. As a result, if a fleet has got only 1 DD, it won’t stand a sub attack, because the expensive carriers, cruisers, and battleships will be the first to get hit. This is often underestimated!
-subs have a greater mobility than other fleet units because they can’t be attacked without an enemy DD.

disadvantages:
-1 defense is little, even for 6 IPC’s. Don’t count on subs to stand tall against an organized attack.
-subs can’t hit air, but air with DD can hit subs
-subs don’t like a lot of DD’s (a single DD is seldom a problem)

To summarize: I like subs a lot the way they are implemented now. And I think Germany building a sole sub fleet is a viable strategy. If you just don’t let the British navy too close, the subs+air will keep the baltic.

Yes, this is correct.  Having no destroyers is a pretty big mistake.

LHTR fixes some issues with box rules.  You can find the rules, and a discussion about them, on Larry’s site.

Well I checked my order,and I ordered 2 of AA50,so if they send me somethin in the mean time,free stuff for me :lol: