Turn order

I think some of that is the point though.  You want to gain initiative if you are using Strike-n-fade units.  In fact, the defense against strike-n-fade is to claim initiative.  Otherwise stirke-n-fade would be too powerful.  I always likened initiative to almost a third player that really helps represent an unknown factor that must exist on real life.

I think the game is “tuned” for initiative-based turns and you’d probably find some broken or unbalanced units or inversely it would make some units unusable if the mechanics were changed too much.

If you try it out, please let us know the pros and cons!

Mot

I am a big fan of the game mechanics “as is”. I like how initiative, movement and assault interplay with one another. I also like the initiative based abilities that usually have more to do with getting “inside the OODA Loop” of you opponent that sheer fire power.

Mateo has been on this kick ever since our last FTF gaming session, when I suddenly realized his mortars were tearing the shit out of me, but I could not hit his spotters (because they ducked for cover).  Personally, I agree that, without that ability, initiative means NOTHING (except for those annoying BAR gunners).  So I’m fine with the mechanics as is.

Cobalt, I am curious as to what you mean by “inside the OODA Loop”.  Could you elaborate?  I am not familiar with that expression.

By the way, don’t spotters usually have that “Chatting on the Radio” SA that disallows them to move during the assault phase?

Mot

OODA stands for Observe, Orient, Decide and Act. It was a leadership theory developed by a Korean War Air Force pilot ace that the Marine Corps adopted in its warfighting philosophy in the mid to late 80s. The idea is to to risk a decision with only about 70% of the information verses the enemy who hesitates to make a decision until he has 100% information. By the time is the enemy is ready to make a decision, you are already on to the next problem and he ends up having to react more and more to your to your previous actions.

While this idea is not likely to be simulated in a PBEM war game, the whole initiative cocnept in Axis & Allies minis can make or break the plan of attack.

@Cobalt:

OODA stands for Observe, Orient, Decide and Act. It was a leadership theory developed by a Korean War Air Force pilot ace that the Marine Corps adopted in its warfighting philosophy in the mid to late 80s. The idea is to to risk a decision with only about 70% of the information verses the enemy who hesitates to make a decision until he has 100% information. By the time is the enemy is ready to make a decision, you are already on to the next problem and he ends up having to react more and more to your to your previous actions.

While this idea is not likely to be simulated in a PBEM war game, the whole initiative cocnept in Axis & Allies minis can make or break the plan of attack.

That’s interesting.  It reminds me of the quote, attributed to Napoleon I believe, that no battle plan survives first contact with the enemy.  The enemy is always doing things (like paradropping in the town right in front of your tanks :wink:) that make you re-adjust your plans.

@Motdc:

By the way, don’t spotters usually have that “Chatting on the Radio” SA that disallows them to move during the assault phase?

Mot

True True True,
But they are not technically “moving” if they are mounted on a Kfz or of the sort. :-D  At least that’s the way I’m interpreting it .
It says “SPOTTER” can’t move.  And even if that Legal loophole doesn’t hold here, Spotter only applies to the extra dice friendly units roll if it spots like a sitting duck during it’s turn.  Unless my stat card has the wrong definition of spotter.  I’d rather not have that extra dice and zip around untouched. :evil:

@mateooo:

Has anyone ever considered adjusting the way the assault phase is done?
As it is, one side performs all of their attacks and assault moves, then the other side does. It seems a bit imbalanced to me, in that it allowed “spotters” to spot for their mortars, then move into cover before the enemy gets to fire back, nullifying any inherent risk there should be for spotters. It makes an ability like “strike and fade” almost useless unless you win initiative. It makes it extremely difficult for the 2nd player to target anything. And it also creates strange scenarios where a highly mobile, weak unit like a jeep or half track can first move into a vulnerable position to prevent an enemy vehicle from claiming that hex, and then move out of range to be attacked when the second player gets their assault.

A way that seems a little more balanced would be to have both sides do all their attacks in order, and then have both sides do their assault moves in order. While it doesnt fix all problems, it does balance things a bit.
thoughts?

And let me tell you Mateo, I won initiative.  I still got burned by that pesky strike and fade because I was only able to disrupt the unit I attacked and it faded 2+ road bonus and high gear on it’s attack phase (5 freakin hexes).  After it attacked me of course. :cry:  Now it is in a safe spot where I can’t possibly reach it on my next turn and that disruption will "fade " away and it was all for nothing :x
Damn those Panhards. :x

Mot, spotters are only needed for airplanes and, perhaps, other specialized units.  Mateo was referring to “spotter” in the generic sense as units that create line-of-sight for MORTARS.  Mortars don’t require any particular type of spotter (the ones that have indirect fire, I mean).  They typically only require that any friendly unit be within four hexes of the target and have LOS to the target.  So that could be a Sherman, a bazooka, a Garand, whatever.

Just to be clear there is only one unit that I know which allows a friendly unit to spot.  The M1 81mm mortor.  To be more specific it’s got to be a U.S. unit also.

All other long range motors need spotters.