I dunno, a44. I wouldn’t be surprised if Hillary’s camp makes a legal push saying that Michigan and Florida already had their primaries and they went 100% in her favor, allowing a do-over could negate the results and defraud her supporters.
I don’t buy it myself, she was the only one on the ticket, but I wouldn’t put it past the family that invented the word “unconcede” from trying.
And if she can win that case, and I don’t see why she shouldn’t have the power and influence to get the courts to rule in her favor, then she has an EXTREMELY good shot at stealing the election from Obama. (Just a note, I say if Obama wins, he stole it from Hillary and if Hillary wins she stole it from Obama; that way I’m not taking sides!)
LMAO, I just went and looked at the Trinity United web site. It’s way different from what it was a month ago when I first looked. There were all kinds of statements about advancing blacks and Black family values (What ever that is) I wonder why if it’s not a big deal is most of that removed from their web site? I only wish I had saved an image, the Mission statement and the “10 point vision” are completely different.
They’re trying to distance themselves from Barrack and soften their image now that the magnifying class is on them.
But statements like “We are living in the US of KKK-America” and “HIV was invented by the white man to genocide the black man” and all the rest of their pastor’s statements from at least 2001 (I have not seen any footage of him from BEFORE 2001) has been incredibly racist, incredibly anti-American way of life and incredibly, how shall I say it, indicative of what we expect from a certain portion of the population especially since Al Gore lost the election in 2000. I hope that’s tactful enough.
Anyway, if Hillary can keep the fire under Barry, she’s got this election sewn up. There’s no way Barry can win if he’s painted in the same light as the KKK. He does have to get SOME white men to vote for him, even in the Democrat party! He can’t do it ONLY with blacks. Jesse Jackson tried that and failed.
I will say that this church BS is probably going to cost Obama any chance he had at getting a respectible share of the “blue collar democrats”… the old school Union workers.
And I don’t think that is going to help him very much in Pennsylvania…
Obama has come out and denounced the pastor that made these statements, but claims it isnt the norm for his church and that he will continue attending. Doesn’t seem like a smart move to me. I would distance myself from such a church.
@M36:
Obama has come out and denounced the pastor that made these statements, but claims it isnt the norm for his church and that he will continue attending. Doesn’t seem like a smart move to me. I would distance myself from such a church.
Sorry bro, but I don’t think they would let your kind in…
@M36:
Obama has come out and denounced the pastor that made these statements, but claims it isnt the norm for his church and that he will continue attending. Doesn’t seem like a smart move to me. I would distance myself from such a church.
Sorry bro, but I don’t think they would let your kind in…
Well, in his speech TODAY, he endorsed his pastor and basically called anyone who holds this against him a racist. He even called his own grandmother a racist. But he wouldn’t call his pastor a racist!
You know, all he had to do was come out and make a simple statement:
I respect my pastor’s views on religion and had asked him to guide my religious development. I do not agree with his politics nor do I ask him for political advice.
Had he just said that, there would be no more to it.
But no. He said he couldn’t distance himself from him because he cannot distance himself from the black movement anymore then he could distance himself from an uncle, etc.
Man, this is REALLY going to hurt him! Top it off with Florida and Michigan saying NO REVOTE and Hillary pushing to make their delegates count ANYWAY (in other words, 100% for her) and I can VERY EASILY see September and October being a race between John McCain and Hillary Clinton. (No campaigning in November due to McCain-Feingold.)
This is getting juicy! I love it! They slandered the crap out of Romney because he was a mormon. Now their man, Obama is getting the same medicine they gave Romney! Only, Obama kind of deserves it…after all, he’s been with this guy for TWENTY YEARS! and today admitted he HAD, in fact, heard these statements from Jay Wright before! (After attempting to shovel as much crap as he good into the American mouths about never hearing anything like what’s being quoted from Jay Wright before all last week.)
BTW, you can STILL buy Jay’s sermons on DvD! So don’t attempt to claim I’m taking him out of context! You can listen to this yahoo rant about how Whites tried to genocide Blacks with aids; how Whites deserved to die on 9/11; etc. This guy’s just full of hate, and as anyone with a good mother knows, you are known by the company you keep. Makes one SUSPECT that maybe Barrack Obama is ALSO a closet racist. I’m not saying he is, but, if these are the people he hangs around with, who he hires to be his ADVISERS, associates with and takes as an authority figure - then maybe he is?
I stand by my previous statements…
Pennsylvania goes to Clinton with HEAVY support in the center of the state and strong support in the west. Barrack is even in the Metro Philly area. Hillary by 10% in PA.
Barrack did not help his case today. In fact he directly contradicted statements he made just within the past 72 hours. First he said he did not hear those comments, then he said today that he did.
The first substantive issue Barrack has had to face and he has already lost 5% in the national polls over it, and that was before today when he made himself out to be just another lying politician…
If by chance Barrack gets the nomination (and the remaining states and Super Delegates are going to start going solidly to Hillary), he will lose in November in a landslide that will rival Mondale/Ferraro in 1984.
I also think that his Secret Service detail’s job just got harder… it only takes one nut case… and this fracass has stirred up a LOT of nutcases…
I just find it funny that people have to dig so hard to find “dirt” on Obama. Get over it.
Or, at least point out McCain’s racist contributors.
We are not talking about “racist” contributors, we are talking about a bigot that is actually ON Obama’s campaign staff and that has been his “spiritual adviser” for 20 years.
Big difference there…
@ncscswitch:
We are not talking about “racist” contributors, we are talking about a bigot that is actually ON Obama’s campaign staff and that has been his “spiritual adviser” for 20 years.
Big difference there…
I concur.
This isn’t some long lost 5th cousin he met once 20 years ago. This is a guy he specifically CHOSE to associate himself with for 20 years on a weekly basis (if not daily) and then, after listening (and agreeing with) all his racist, anti-American rants from the pulpit, decided to appoint his primary spiritual adviser (and that also entails giving him life advise.) On top of it all, his speech today sounded more like an indictment of people who were agitating under Jay Wright’s speeches then an indictment of Jay’s speeches.
Then, Florida and Michigan came out and said no revote. They want their delegates to stand as elected come the convention. (Which makes sense, they’d have to reprint ballots, mail them out, wait for them to be returned, deal with all the fraud that entails, etc.) And you know Hillary’s going to make an insanely strong case that the DNC should not disenfranchise those poor blue collar workers in Michigan who lost their homes and their jobs, nor the New Yorkers in Florida who were so decisive in the 2000 election.
Then, of course, John Edwards is going to eventually endorse someone. Odds are, he’ll endorse Hillary now that Barrack’s teetering on the cliffs. That’s a large chunk of delegates as well. (Most commentators forget to factor in Edward’s delegates when they evaluate the battlefield in the democrat party right now.)
Anyway, wasn’t it just a few weeks ago ya’all were sayin the Republicans were imploding!? Hmm….never looked THIS bad for Republicans! I just think all the switch voting to keep Hillary in may be backfiring now…we just wanted her in it long enough to keep it close and now, it appears she’ll have enough delegates to be the presumptive before then.
Ah well, over half the nation still hates her at least. Of course, with Jay Wright, I think more then half the nation hates Barry now…Thus, I agree with Switch, if the election was tomorrow between Protestant John McCain and Jay Wright/ Barrack Obama - I’d say John McCain with at least as much of a lead as Bush had over Kerry in 2004, if not more. (Of course, McCain’s just a more intelligent sounding Bush. So that’s no real surprise.)
this was unexpected. obama’s mentor is gonna mess his campaign up, already has. the democrats are going to get pissed and tear into each other wont they. this is gonna be fun to watch.
second, who really wants to vote for hillary. when it comes down to it. McCains just so nice.
@ncscswitch:
We are not talking about “racist” contributors, we are talking about a bigot that is actually ON Obama’s campaign staff and that has been his “spiritual adviser” for 20 years.
Big difference there…
Yes, but my point is that it’s not important. Talk about Obama’s merits. I sincerely doubt his spiritual adviser is telling him to kill whitey, especially when that would involve the death of his mom. They are just digging to find anything on him now. People are just acting silly over that.
BTW, I’m not voting for Obama.
@ncscswitch:
We are not talking about “racist” contributors, we are talking about a bigot that is actually ON Obama’s campaign staff and that has been his “spiritual adviser” for 20 years.
Big difference there…
Yes, but my point is that it’s not important. Talk about Obama’s merits. I sincerely doubt his spiritual adviser is telling him to kill whitey, especially when that would involve the death of his mom. They are just digging to find anything on him now. People are just acting silly over that.
BTW, I’m not voting for Obama.
Well then knock it off and start bashing him, dang don’t you know how politics works!
it is a flaw in him. he went to a church and thus associated with people that have raciest views. if you chose to go to a place and par take in that place’s activities then you associate with it. you may not agree with all that is said, but there is a good chance that a lot you do. when the place makes strong statments then it is easy to say how you would agree with them if you stayed.
lets say you go into a church to join and the preacher and congragation all seams good that day, then a month latter you hear a serman that says the problem with Amarica is that blacks are doing (insert statment). what would you do then? i would hope you would say something or go some place else. if you stayed but said something and it happens again then you should leave as now the church is acting in a way that you don’t agree with. but if you stay and there is no change and you sit back and enjoy then you are by not disagreeing with it saying “it’s ok to say that and i’m ok with being told that is how it is.”
look at it a diffrent way. your son goes to school and you meet the teacher. the teacher seams nice and all. a few weeks latter you see that same teacher well not at school standing at a war protest. nothing wrong with that, but then the spouce of that teacher (or boy friend/girlfriend) escalades the protest via violance. the teacher may not be particapating in said violance but the teacher also is not stopping there spouce. now you may agree with the teachers stance on the war (or not, it’s not relavent IMO), but the teacher did by asociating with the violance that came from it in effect condone the violance. now it could be a 1 time deal that the spouce got out of hand, but lets say you look into it and find that this spouce has a record of this well with the teacher. do you realy think the teacher is going to be the best influance on your son? the teacher may be good at there job, but you arn’t there to see all that the teacher says and dose all the time. who is to say the teacher isn’t telling your son that violance is ok to protest?
put that in context, the teacher is the same as Obama and we don’t know if he will take what he learned from from his preacher and take that into the presadencey and say “you know what the US did a lot of bad and so we realy deserved what we got, we shouldn’t be in Afganistan going after the Talaban, so lets pull out.” he won’t say we deserved it, but dosn’t mean he won’t think it… he did listen to his “spearital adviser” for 20 years tell him that the US is bad and that the US is trying still to kill blacks and do other bad things, after 20 years i’m pritty sure some of it stuck.
Obama’s lead over McCain has washed away, according to Zogby. Looks like McCain could beat both Hillary and Barrack handily if the election were held tomorrow now.
On a side note, as many of you know, I attend at NIU, and NIU is in Hastert’s old district. It was mentioned earlier that the Dems are going to keep Congress because Foster won in Hasterts district.
More information on the election (and I’m not an expert, but the papers have been going nuts over the results out here)
1) Foster only one with a few hundred votes in the district.
2) The percentage win falls within the margin of error for counting the votes
3) Many of the traditional polling places were closed and many people who supported Oberweise were not informed where the alternative polling place was. (Foster made sure to send mailers to registered Democrats 2 weeks before, 1 week before and 2 days before telling them where their polling place was. Oberweise dropped the ball and did not do that.)
Many analysts are saying that retribution in November will give Oberweise a very, VERY significant victory over Foster. Even higher then the projections had given Oberweise before the election. This is due in part to the traditional polling places being open in November and added too resentment that Foster won, topped off with how very slim Foster’s victory was.
So, with that said, it’s a poor template to use for November in determining which party will control Congress. However, latest reports show that, since this time many more Democrats are up for re-election, and because 90% of the American population dis-approve of Congress and the job Congress has done since they took over in 2007 (can’t imagine why, after all, the DOW has fallen nearly 33% since they took over power) that Republicans will pick up enough seats to not only maintain the power to stop democrat legislation, but maybe enough to reclaim majority.
It won’t be a total land-slide. There’s still an irrational hatred of George Bush and Republicans because of him. However, as the Democrat debates keep going, and more and more mud is thrown from Obama on Hillary and Hillary on Obama - added to racist rantings of Obama supporters, republicans will benefit.
More news on Michigan as well. It appears that Michigan will only hold a revote for those people who took a democrat ticket in the first vote. Hillary is very opposed to this saying it will disenfranchise the thousands of voters who crossed the lines to nominate McCain and sabotage the Republican party. Obama is very for this, obviously, since he was not on the ticket the first time out and because it will stop Republicans from returning the favor and electing Hillary to be the democrat nominee.
I think rules will be established that you will have to be registered in a party to vote in the primary and that you will not be able to register as another party, or register for a party at all within a certain time frame in the next primary season. Democrats attempt to pull a fast one and get McCain nominated, succeeded, and then had it back fire with P/Oed Republicans returning the favor and pushing to keep Hillary in it. (And she’s not too proud to take our support either! She’s all for the power, not for the good of the party - IMHO.)
Jermo,
This situation is a bit more serious than you want to accept. And it is not JUST the things that his Pastor of 20 years and a member of his advisory committee has said.
Obama’s response to this has shown the lie to the perception of him being “above politics”, that he is a fresh, honest face that is uncorrupted by the usual political tactics and ways of doing things.
Friday he said that Reverend Wright NEVER said things like was aired when he was in the church. In his speech yesterday he said that he DID hear those things. Which is it Senator? One of those statements is a lie… politics as usual.
Last year during the Rutgers basketball team issue with that radio guy, Obama was interviewed and made lots of statements about “not associating” with people who have that type of view. Yet for 20 years Obama has associated himself with Rev. Wright who has far more radical and bigoted views that have been repeated over and over for 2 decades as compared to one off-handed “nappy headed hoe” comment that got a talk show host canned… Which is it Barrack? Do you or do you not associate yourself with bigots? Or do you just have zero tolerance for non-black bigots? One or the other, both cannot be true.
The point is (beyond the actual racial issues and the apparent propensities that Obama apparently supports) is that Obama has shown himself to be “just another politician” who lies, who misleads, and who says whatever he thinks people want to hear.
And the majority of his support was because that is NOT what he was supposed to be.
Make him “just another politician”, and there is nothing special about him, except his lack of experience and his skin color.
@Cmdr:
Obama’s lead over McCain has washed away, according to Zogby. Looks like McCain could beat both Hillary and Barrack handily if the election were held tomorrow now.
The latest polling (cnn & Gallup) has Obama up by one against McCain. Those same polls also have Clinton up by 2 and 5 against McCain.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/national.html
1) Foster only one with a few hundred votes in the district.
2) The percentage win falls within the margin of error for counting the votes
3) Many of the traditional polling places were closed and many people who supported Oberweise were not informed where the alternative polling place was. (Foster made sure to send mailers to registered Democrats 2 weeks before, 1 week before and 2 days before telling them where their polling place was. Oberweise dropped the ball and did not do that.)
Where are you getting this? Foster won by by 6% and over 5000 votes.
Many analysts are saying that retribution in November will give Oberweise a very, VERY significant victory over Foster.
Whos saying that?
So, with that said, it’s a poor template to use for November in determining which party will control Congress. However, latest reports show that, since this time many more Democrats are up for re-election, and because 90% of the American population dis-approve of Congress
Not true. Congress’s aprroval rate is 19%, NOT 10%. http://pollingreport.com/CongJob.htm
Also, people are even more disappointed with Republican Congressmen than Democrats:
http://pollingreport.com/cong_dem.htm
http://pollingreport.com/cong_rep.htm
Republicans get 22% on Excellent/pretty good.
Democrats get 26%
I would love nothing more than to see a divided govt. (yay gridlock), but it aint gonna happen in Congress.
(can’t imagine why, after all, the DOW has fallen nearly 33% since they took over power)
Not true, as proven before. The Dow grew several thousand points from Jan 2007 (swearing in of Congress) to the beginning of the Bear market (Oct 2007). This is like blaming Bush for the Dow growing 2% a year since he took office. A ridicuous argument.
There’s still an irrational hatred of George Bush and Republicans because of him.
Its very rational, as Ron Paul would say. Balooning defeicits, expansion of govt., nation-building, invasion of privacy, Terry Schiavo. These are all things Bush campaigned AGAINST. I miss my old GOP. Now it looks a lot like a bunch of Neo-con Democrats.
However, as the Democrat debates keep going, and more and more mud is thrown from Obama on Hillary and Hillary on Obama - added to racist rantings of Obama supporters, republicans will benefit.
This is true.
Way to not read, Smacktard.
I didn’t say Congresses APPROVAL RATE was 10%. I said over 90% of American voters were disapproved of the 110th Congress.
As for where I am getting my polling numbers, McCain vs Obama and Congressional Approval, etc, they come from Zogby. Why you use biased sources like Real Clear Politics and other such places, I have no idea.
As for the 14th District Race in Illinois, you are absolutely correct EXCEPT after mail in votes are counted. Mail in votes were decided NOT to be counted for the special election because it would take over a month to make sure they were all counted. However, reports have it that AFTER they were counted (and it didn’t take a month, but I’m sure there’s some still lost in the postal system, that’s probably what they were worried about) his lead has severely dwindled.
Top that off with your inability to counter the other points I raised, and you can see why I say it is a BAD TEMPLATE to use to determine what will happen in November.
As for “who’s saying that Oberweise will trump Foster” in November, try EVERYONE WHO LIVES IN THE DISTRICT. I mean you cannot find a single report in any paper or periodical in the area that says Foster even has a breath’s chance of success in November. He won because he coordinated better for the special election, not because he had the most support. As I said, there was great confusion on the election day because a very significant portion of polling places were closed on election day. There were only a few places open and they were all in the town centers, not in the outer areas where most of the populace lives and works. When Farmer Bill goes to the post office to vote, and the post office is closed, and he remembers he can ONLY vote at HIS polling place, what happens is he is disenfranchised. That’s what happened in large numbers because most of the polling places were closed on election day. The Court Houses of Sycamore, DeKalb, Genoa, etc were open but not the normal places. Foster organized his followers in the cities to get them out, but Oberweise, not realizing the peril (since the polls had him with like a 30% lead on Foster) didn’t think to worry about it.
Hence, it’s a case of Dewey Wins and will be corrected in November.
DOW Jones before 110th Congress Passed most of their legislation:
14,000
DOW Jones AFTER 110th Congress began passing most legislation:
10,000
The facts are the facts, darlin. I know they don’t fit into your perspective of the world, but that does not mean you can discount them. Before they started passing legislation on the economy, the DOW was going up every quarter. After, it dropped every quarter. And you wonder why almost everyone in this country dislikes Congress and over 80% of us want to vote them the hell back out?
No, it’s an irrational hatred of Bush. He could release information that he had personally found the cure to cancer and some would be lambasting him for not finding it 8 years ago. It does not matter what he does or does not do, there is a large portion (mostly on the left) who hate him because he unseated the Democrats and continues to run rings around them in the political arena. For a dunce, he sure is able to get the Democrats to dance to his tune a lot. (Which is not too hard, his tune is the same as theirs, at least on the domestic side. Which is funny, so is McCain’s, which is why I call him Bush the Third.)
It appears Obama has become the candidate of race. According to NBC News Chicago, most people polled today, who describe themselves as liberal, fall into race camps. Blacks are going overwhelmingly for Obama. Whites are going overwhelmingly for Clinton. Admittedly, it’s a street corner poll and in Chicago only; but if that’s indicative of the nation, he has lost the candidacy election. Why? Almost all the super delegates are white. If all the whites are going Clinton, then she’ll have more then the 2032 or whatever, she needs to win.
@Cmdr:
Way to not read, Smacktard.
I didn’t say Congresses APPROVAL RATE was 10%. I said over 90% of American voters were disapproved of the 110th Congress.
If 19% APPROVE of Congress, than how can “over 90%” disapprove? What, do you think they polled 109% of the people? :roll:
As for where I am getting my polling numbers, McCain vs Obama and Congressional Approval, etc, they come from Zogby. Why you use biased sources like Real Clear Politics and other such places, I have no idea.
Um, Realclearpolitics HAS the poll your’re talking about. Its just not the most current. The most current polling has both Clinton and Obama over McCain. And how exactly is it biased? They carry articles form the New YorkTimes, Wall Street Journal, and every other national outlet. You cant just assert something and assume what you say is true.
As for the 14th District Race in Illinois, you are absolutely correct EXCEPT after mail in votes are counted. Mail in votes were decided NOT to be counted for the special election because it would take over a month to make sure they were all counted. However, reports have it that AFTER they were counted (and it didn’t take a month, but I’m sure there’s some still lost in the postal system, that’s probably what they were worried about) his lead has severely dwindled.
“Reports have it”? you have a source for this? I did a Google for “Oberweis disputes” and got nothing. If he thought there was fraud, he’d be disputing the results and screaming bloody murder.
Top that off with your inability to counter the other points I raised, and you can see why I say it is a BAD TEMPLATE to use to determine what will happen in November.
I never said it was a template at all. My point was that Foster wasnt expected to win AT ALL. Its certainly not good news for the Republicans that Oberweis lost.
As for “who’s saying that Oberweise will trump Foster” in November, try EVERYONE WHO LIVES IN THE DISTRICT. I mean you cannot find a single report in any paper or periodical in the area that says Foster even has a breath’s chance of success in November.
Then I’m sure it will be easy to link some of those reports. Or does the internet not function where you live?
DOW Jones before 110th Congress Passed most of their legislation:
14,000
So that’s when Congress’s term starts? When they pass “most of their legislation”? How non-arbitrary :roll:
DOW Jones AFTER 110th Congress began passing most legislation:
10,000
The DOW hasn’t been at 10,000 since 2005. http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?symb=DJIA&sid=1643&o_symb=DJIA&freq=2&time=12
The facts are the facts, darlin. I know they don’t fit into your perspective of the world, but that does not mean you can discount them.
My “perspective of the world” consists of facts that are baked up by sources. Your M.O. seems to be: assert something and hope its true.
Before they started passing legislation on the economy, the DOW was going up every quarter. After, it dropped every quarter. And you wonder why almost everyone in this country dislikes Congress and over 80% of us want to vote them the hell back out?
As I showed before, Congress was passing legislation in Feb. And as I also showed, Republican congressmen are more disliked than there Democrta counterparts.
No, it’s an irrational hatred of Bush. He could release information that he had personally found the cure to cancer and some would be lambasting him for not finding it 8 years ago. It does not matter what he does or does not do, there is a large portion (mostly on the left) who hate him because he unseated the Democrats and continues to run rings around them in the political arena.
No, its because he abandonded the core principles of the Republican party.
Why? Almost all the super delegates are white. If all the whites are going Clinton, then she’ll have more then the 2032 or whatever, she needs to win.
The superdelegates are not going to go against Obama if he wins the popular vote and the most delegates. Theyre not gonna repeat 1968. You want to put some money on your racial argument?
