Presidential Election (as a current event- watch the tone or it's gone)

@Cmdr:

@Smacktard:

Latest poll has Obama up by 5 over Mccain and Clinton up by 2
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/national.html

These hypothetical matchiup polls are always in flux, esp. when one party has a candidate and the other doesnt.

You’re smoking stuff.

Poll from TODAY on your favorite site (Realclearpolitics) has McCain over Obama by 3 points and yesterday by 5 points.

No it doesnt. Its a fox poll that has McCain up by 1. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/latestpolls/index.html

See where it says “Spread”? Clinton +3, McCain +1.

http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/032008_release_web.pdf

The Fiscal Responsibility Act passed the House Jan 26th, 1995
The Taking Back our Streets Act passed Feb 14, 1995
The National Security Restoration Act passed Feb 16, 1995.

Thank you for taking the bait!  I knew if I just slightly messed up dates enough, you’d EVENTUALLY STEP RIGHT INTO IT!  You ADMIT that the crashes in the DOW and the Housing Market and the insane gas prices are 100% Congress’s fault!

huh? What on Earth would Congress have to do with gas prices?

Got you HOOK, LINE and SINKER!  You’ve been claiming it wasn’t Congress’s fault, it was the Republicans fault

I did? I thought I blamed the FED for creating too much liquidity, and the banks for bad loans.

but then, you had to do your own research proving beyond a doubt that it WAS the Democrat’s fault!  They passed the legislation and thus it was THEIR FAULT!

What on Earth are you talking about? The Contract With America legislation from the 90’s? The meaningless minimum wage hike?

As for Foster and the absentees, that’s your own fault.

Its  my own fault you can’t verify your information?

If you cannot figure out what newspapers are printed in the region, and thus only go to national sites that have no interest in a very short term election, then I pitty your lack of ingenuity.

I know what newspapers are printed in that region. its the 14th congressional district. http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/beaconnews/index.html
http://www.kcchronicle.com/

Happy hunting!

Especially after I posted the newspaper names and issues and volume numbers a few times in a few different threads.

Uh huh.

Sorry, but corn country does not usually invest in Internet printing.

corn country? the 14th district is right next to CHICAGO. http://www.illinoisatlas.com/illinois/political/pdf/il_cd2002.pdf

Your story (if it exists at all), would be in the Chicao Sun Times.

Either way, Oberweise AND Foster both agree that Foster won in a miracle of special election magic and that his chances in November - short of a democrat miracle - are barely 1 in 4.

Do you ever have a source for any of this?

Current polls (from WEDNESDAY in the local paper (Mid-Week Report)) show that 79% of the registered voters (from the total population via telephone polling) show that Oberweise is the preferred candidate in November.

Riiiiight.

In fact, the turn out for the special election barely broke 30% of registered voters in the district.  Probably because a lot of people didn’t know where to vote when their voting place was closed.

Turnout was 22%
http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=151059

Look, I KNOW you are praying that the Democrats get a stronger majority in the house and senate and get the White House.  But the fact is, if the elections were held today, McCain would beat BOTH Hillary and Barrack by a pretty sound margin and that the Republicans would regain control of the House and Senate with slim majorities in each.

Its kind of weird you think you know my prayers.

Sorry that troubles you, but facts are facts.  The PEOPLE know that the 110th Congress has been a royal screw up.  90%+ of the people are unhappy with the PERSONS in Congress and 80%+ are unhappy with the INSTITUTION of Congress compared to 60% approval ratings of Bush as a PERSON and 40% approval ratings of Bush as a President.

more numbers with nothing to back them up.

If you really believed what you say you would take a 5-1 bet on someone you think needs a “miracle” to win. Hell, I’ll even give you 3-1. But you won’t take it, will you?

@ncscswitch:

I am increasing my forecast…

Clinton by 15% in Pennsylvania…

North Carolina is in play (and was 10% in Obama’s column 2 weeks ago…)

Americans are SICK of racial BS.  And Obama’s pastor… the man who has guided Obama’s spiritual development for 20 years, is espousing religion supported racism.  That won;t work any better for Obama than it did for David Duke in Louisiana in the early 1990’s when he ran for Governor there.

Yeah, this hasnt come close to playing itself out. America created HIV? What the hell is that? Maybe I could buy into black anger for some of Wrights comments, but others cant be excused, at all.

Heres the thing though: with Florida and Michigan out, Hillary now has very little chance of winning the popular vote or pledged delegates. But Barac has been imploding for two weeks now. If Barac continues to flounder, the Supers can either overturn the popular vote, or go with a weak candidate who’ll be destoryed in the General.

The democrats, as usual, are aboiut to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Itd be comical if I didn’t think McCain would take us to war against Iran.

Wow, Tard-boy, even when you stumble right into your own traps you are oblivious.

Illinois Democratic Sen. Barack Obama gave one speech in Philadelphia this week, but he made two different presentations.

The first was an apology and attempted explanation for his 20-year relationship with a preacher, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, who is viciously anti-American, racist and anti-Semitic and for his membership in a church which had honored Louis Farrakhan.

The second presentation was an eloquent but fundamentally inadequate speech about racism and poverty in America. It was an invitation to a national dialogue that conservatives and all Americans should accept.

Sen. Obama’s first presentation was very troubling. It offers two possibilities for judging his character, both of which are unsettling.

The first possibility is that Sen. Obama did not notice the racism, anti-Americanism and anti-Semitism coming from the pulpit in 20 years of attending Pastor Wright’s sermons. He failed to register as troubling Pastor Wright’s trip to Libya with Louis Farrakhan to see Muammar Qaddafi or the church’s giving Farrakhan a lifetime achievement award.

But if this is true, it is a devastating insight into any possibility that Sen. Obama is ready to be President. How could we expect him to act with judgment and responsibility in Iran and Iraq, to pick a Supreme Court Justice or to undertake any other complex act under the pressing reality of being president when he could not notice reality in 20 years at his church.

On the other hand, if he noticed the goings on in his church but failed to act on them, what does that tell us about his honesty and his courage?

After all, it was Sen. Obama himself who set the standard. As Boston Globe columnist Jeff Jacoby (http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2008/03/19/its_still_a_question_of_wright_and_wrong/) noted, “When Don Imus uttered his infamous slur on the radio last year, Obama cut him no slack. Imus should be fired (http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=3031317&page=1), he said. ‘There’s nobody on my staff who would still be working for me if they made a comment like that about anybody of any ethnic group.’”

I understand this standard. When I first became speaker of the House, we hired a House historian who turned out to have written very controversial things. We asked for her resignation within 24 hours of learning what she had done.
Clearly, when it comes to Pastor Wright, Sen. Obama has fallen short of his own standard by about 20 years.

Still, the fascinating opportunity Sen. Obama offers is to begin a genuine dialogue on race and poverty in America.

The sections of his speech on race and poverty were eloquent – but they were fundamentally inaccurate and inadequate.

As such, they create a real opportunity to engage Sen. Obama in a national dialogue about why poverty exists on the Southside of Chicago, why Detroit has been a disaster and why there is so much crime in Philadelphia.

This is the best opportunity conservatives have had in our lifetime to engage a serious politician of the left on a national dialogue about how to help every American pursue happiness.

Sen. Obama’s analysis in his Philadelphia speech was so filled with inaccuracies and was so inadequate in its proposed remedies that it must be responded to. However, the event could be the beginning of a major national effort to discuss how we can help poor people, poor neighborhoods and impoverished Americans.

In Real Change (which with your help has now entered its ninth week on the New York Times bestsellers list), I outline the disaster of Detroit, which has dropped from 1,800,000 people in 1950 to fewer than 900,000 today (the first American city to drop below one million in our history). Detroit had the highest median income of all major cities in America in 1950. Today it ranks at No. 66 out of 68 major cities in media household income.

The tragedy of Detroit can’t be blamed on the decline of the auto industry alone. Grand Rapids – another Michigan city dependent on the auto industry but one with good government – is prospering.

African-Americans in particular have been impoverished by the bad government policies of Detroit. What would Sen. Obama do to reform the bad city government, failed public safety policies and terrible school system?

That said, what makes the Congress of Newt Gingrich better then that of Nancy Pelosi?

1. During the late 1990s, employment of never-married mothers increased by nearly 50%, of single mothers who are high school dropouts by 66% and of young single mothers (ages 18 to 24) by nearly 100%;

2. The child poverty rate fell, from 20.8% in 1995 to 17.8% in 2004, lifting 1.6 million children out of poverty;

3. The poverty rate among black children fell from 41.5% in 1995 to 32.9% in 2004 (a stark contrast from the period 1971 to 1995 when this poverty level had not changed much);

4. The poverty rate also fell from 53.1% to 39.8% for children from single-mother families;

5. The once explosive growth of unwed childbearing has ended. The unwed birthrate was 7.7% in 1965 and increased about one percentage point per year for the next thirty years. Had this rate of increase been sustained, the unwed childbearing rate would have hit 41.6% by 2003, but welfare reform interrupted this process. Between 1995 and 2003, overall unwed childbearing inched upward by only 2.4 percentage points, a fourth of the pre-reform rate of increase. The black unwed childbearing rate actually fell from 69.9% in 1995 to 68.2% in 2003; and

6. Welfare caseloads began to decline in earnest after 1996 and have fallen by 56% since then.

We should accept Sen. Obama’s invitation.

Let us have an honest national dialogue about what works and what fails in helping people.

Let us visit the sites of institutions that are failing and the sites of places where people are doing the right things and having a positive result.

Let us have the courage to challenge conservative ideas and institutions but let us also have the courage to challenge left-wing ideas and institutions.

Sen. Obama has opened a discussion that could be very good for America. It may turn out to be a discussion that forces him to confront the degree to which today’s problems are the problems of bad government, bad regulations, bad tax policy, bad litigation policy and bad attitudes.

{Reprinted with permission from the RNC}

@Cmdr:

Wow, Tard-boy, even when you stumble right into your own traps you are oblivious.

Thats it? I prove you wrong on almost everything and all you got is a lame personal attack? Kind of a hollow victory. Anyway I shall smite thee righetously and move on.

@Smacktard:

@Cmdr:

Wow, Tard-boy, even when you stumble right into your own traps you are oblivious.

Thats it? I prove you wrong on almost everything and all you got is a lame personal attack? Kind of a hollow victory. Anyway I shall smite thee righetously and move on.

You’ve proved no one wrong on anything.

I just got you to demonstrate that my point was correct.  The 110th Congress is to blame for the Housing Market and the Economy (and oil really, if you dig into it.)

You’ve been attempting to prove it was the 109th Congress’s fault.  However, by your own admission, all those pieces of legislation were passed by the 110th Congress BEFORE the crash and thus it IS THEIR fault.

I, being a highly intelligent, thought provoking individual, have learned when dealing with the likes of you, it is much easier to get you flustered so you’ll go out and prove my point for me in a vain attempt to prove me wrong on something you misunderstood.  It works almost every time it’s tried.

Hell, I got Switch to agree to giving the terrorists at Gitmo Firearms and the Right to form militias before he realized what he was pushing for and backed off a few years ago.  So don’t feel bad for being slammed on your incorrect statements.  It’s not your fault, you’ve just been led down a path that is not correct and need to be shown the way back.  It’s okay, we’re all students in government, no one’s perfect after all.  Sometimes we just falter and think that government control over every aspect of our lives may not be a bad thing, so it takes a thought provoking, highly intelligent individual such as myself and others on these boards and elsewhere to snap you out of your defeatist attitude and bring you back into the fold as a card carrying, American citizen.

However, I would recommend looking at the majority of national polls conducted in a scientific method instead of a phone in poll conducted only by viewers who are motivated enough to call your cable station.  That’s a point you are still faltering on and I believe you should make amends.  Places like Zogby and Rasmussen and Gallup may not be perfect, but they are much more scientific and less biased then sources like Fox or CNN or ABC or NBC.  Those four are television stations, they are in it for the ratings and, the people who watch them, generally are biased in the same way as they are.  Thus their polls, which are conducted by chance, not by a scientifically selected population, are also skewed in the same way.

Finally, I’ll just point out that I will not debase myself to your level.  If you wish to smite the innocent and fill yourself with bile and venom towards the loving, altruistic innocents of this board, then I pity you and hope that you are not as unethical as to smite the homeless or physically handicapped.

@Cmdr:

@Smacktard:

@Cmdr:

Wow, Tard-boy, even when you stumble right into your own traps you are oblivious.

Thats it? I prove you wrong on almost everything and all you got is a lame personal attack? Kind of a hollow victory. Anyway I shall smite thee righetously and move on.

You’ve proved no one wrong on anything.

Foster does not give up his seat in Nov.
The Dow hasn’t hit 10,000 since 2005
There are online newspapers in Foster’s district (14th congressional)
Turnout in the Foster race was 22%
Foster won by over 5000 votes and 6%
Barac has never said “he isn’t too disappointed with being back in second place because he never thought the black candidate would beat Hillary”
Congress routinely votes on (and passes) legislation in Jan and Feb
The beginning of Congress’s term is when they’re sworn in, not when they pass “most of their legislation”
Neither Congress nor Bush have anything to do with the credit/housing crisis.

And thats off the top of my head. But anyway. The most telling point is you won’t put your money wher your mouth is. I’m willing to bet on my predictions. Youre not. Nuff said. I’ll also make a pretty safe prediction that youre desperate to have the last word.

@Smacktard:

@Cmdr:

@Smacktard:

@Cmdr:

Wow, Tard-boy, even when you stumble right into your own traps you are oblivious.

Thats it? I prove you wrong on almost everything and all you got is a lame personal attack? Kind of a hollow victory. Anyway I shall smite thee righetously and move on.

You’ve proved no one wrong on anything.

Foster does not give up his seat in Nov.

Actually, he does.  He physically sits there, but when he’s out, he’s out.  As I’ve always said.  You’ve failed to prove that a deposed congressman is a political power after he is deposed.

The Dow hasn’t hit 10,000 since 2005

Rounded it has.  April 2007 it dropped below 11,000 which is in the 10,000 range.  Just like today it’s crept up just over 12,000 we don’t say it’s 13,000 we say it’s 12,000.  Just like under the 109th Congress it peaked in the 14,000s.

There are online newspapers in Foster’s district (14th congressional)

I never said there was not.  I said that you were too lazy to go find them.  I also said that the papers all say that the votes after absentee ballots dropped his lead and that polls all the way through show him to not be the favored candidate, even the day of the election.  You have not disproved that.

Turnout in the Foster race was 22%

You agree with me.  I said that turn out was at record lows and went so far as to even tell you WHY.  Main polling places, places people have voted in for 50+ years, were closed causing confusion and disarray resulting in many republicans being, effectively, disenfranchised because they were not told where to go to vote.  However, democrats, who generally congregate in high population centers like cities, saw on road signs that they had to go to the court houses for the special elections and that the normal polling places were closed.  This resulted in an abnormally high turn out of democrats compared to republicans.

Foster won by over 5000 votes and 6%

Again, not counting the absentees, I agreed with you.  After the absentees were counted, his lead dropped to just over 112 votes.  Unfortunately, absentee ballots were determined to be inadmissible due to the very short term the congressman would have.  Waiting to count them all would only make the term ever so much shorter and useless.

Barack has never said “he isn’t too disappointed with being back in second place because he never thought the black candidate would beat Hillary”

Really.  That was the gist of his speech yesterday.  I never put his words in {quote} {/quote} tags because it was not word for word.  It was the gist of his message that he never expected to be in first, and now that he’s not first anymore, it’s not too much of a set back because he never expected to be first.  In other words, he’s okay with being in second because it’s where he always expected to be.

Of course, people are more interested with him calling his Grandma a racist but his pastor just a good American.

Congress routinely votes on (and passes) legislation in Jan and Feb

And as I said, had I said it was the 110th Congress’s fault because of bad legislation, you would have attempted to claim it couldn’t have been because there was not enough time.  So, I exaggerated a bit and got you to fall right into the trap.  Now that you’ve confirmed that it really IS the 110th Congress’s fault, you are attempting to change the subject to feel superior in some way.  It’s okay.  I understand that when you lose as big as you have in the past few weeks, being wrong in every regard, you have to try some of this stuff in order to feel like you don’t have to go commit suicide.

The beginning of Congress’s term is when they’re sworn in, not when they pass “most of their legislation”

I never claimed it was when congress passes their legislation.  I talked you into proving that the current Congress was inept and it was their ineptitude that caused the Housing Market Crash AND the Economic recession/depression.  Not my fault you walked right into it.  I cannot be faulted for leaving my fist out and allowing you to run face first into it.

Neither Congress nor Bush have anything to do with the credit/housing crisis.

Sure, and the President has nothing to do with negotiating treaties or commanding the armed forces.  While we’re at it, let’s pretend that Senators are only present to serve finger sandwiches to the Queen and that Congressmen are supposed to have their room mates run prostitution rings out of their homes.

Hell boy, the ONLY branch of government with the power to create or destroy a housing or credit or economic crises IS THE CONGRESS.  If you give me your address, I’ll be glad to mail you your very own copy of the US Constitution, I think you need to read it, because you don’t know what’s in it.

A)  Gambling is immoral.

B)  I don’t steal from the socially handicapped.  If you had information to make the playing field more level, I may consider it.

Anyway, as I have shown, you’ve been wrong in EVERY regard.  Every last one.  You’ve fallen into every pit fall there is because you do not see them coming and that’s because you buy into the lies spoon fed to you by the media elite.  Honestly, get out of the gutter and go look into things more then just getting a headline or two.

Read Barry’s speeches, read a news paper article all the way through from a district you are talking about, not a national media elite article.  Do some research into things.  And for god’s sake, try to figure out what someone’s argument is before you step into a pile of dung trying to be holier then thou and prove someone wrong only to ultimately prove them right!

I’m just trying to help.  I’m sure with some consoling you can return to being a productive member of society!  As it is now, you are very easy to play, it’s almost no fun anymore - except when I get to school you like I am now.  I said it was the 110th Congress’ fault for the economic mess we were in, you said it wasn’t, I said it was because they promised to take us into a new direction, you said it was the 109th’s fault, I then decided to claim they were too incompetent to get anything done and you went right out and proved that it was their legislation that caused this mess, you even found the specific bills for me!

If you are going to argue it’s not their fault, do not find the evidence proving it is.  It’s a simple thing to figure out.  But knowing you like the holier then thou road, all I had to do was take a different tack on my attack and let you come to me.

Lets just focus on one thing here. Its very illuminating. I said

The Dow hasn’t hit 10,000 since 2005

You said:

@Cmdr:

Rounded it has.

No it hasnt. From 2007 to PRESENT it hasn’t fallen below 11500. If you’re rounding 11500 to 10,000, youre an idiot. http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?symb=DJIA&sid=1643&o_symb=DJIA&freq=1&time=9

April 2007 it dropped below 11,000 which is in the 10,000 range.

No it didn’t. April 2007, it never dropped below 12,000. How do you go through life not knowing how to read a basic chart?

http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?symb=DJIA&sid=1643&o_symb=DJIA&freq=1&time=9

we say it’s 12,000.

No we don’t. We say it closed at 12361.

Just like under the 109th Congress it peaked in the 14,000s.

No it didn’t. It didnt hit 14000 until July 2007. During the 110th Congress

“The Dow Jones Industrial Average topped a record 14,000 this week, but other concerns about the economy remained, including an increase in housing foreclosures. A columnist explains the economic factors.”

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/business/july-dec07/market_07-20.html
July 20, 2007

And that basically sums up the difference between us. You have no clue what youre talking about and I have to correct you.

Two things…

One:  Never argue DJIA averages with Jen.  Regardless of your figures and sources, she refuses to accept them.  I learned that a couple years ago :-P

Two:  Back on topic of Presidential Candidates please.  The thread has gone off on a tangent and needs to get back on topic or it goes away.

OK. Read this Switch:

"WASHINGTON -It is already easy to imagine the Republican attack ads against Barack Obama.

They open with video of his wife, Michelle, saying she was proud of America “for the first time in my adult lifetime” because of her husband’s presidential candidacy. Cut to the Illinois Senator explaining that he doesn’t wear an American flag lapel pin because it is a “substitute for true patriotism.” Then flash a clip of Obama explaining that his Caucasian grandmother was a “typical white person” because she uttered racial epithets and was afraid of black people.

Finally, the coup de grace, pictures of Obama’s angry, arm-waving preacher blaming the United States for 9/11 and shouting “God Damn America” to the rafters of Chicago’s Trinity United Church of Christ." http://www.nationalpost.com/news/world/story.html?id=392200

Thats exactly how its gonna go down. Obama, the new Gary Hart?

@Smacktard:

OK. Read this Switch:

"WASHINGTON -It is already easy to imagine the Republican attack ads against Barack Obama.

They open with video of his wife, Michelle, saying she was proud of America “for the first time in my adult lifetime” because of her husband’s presidential candidacy. Cut to the Illinois Senator explaining that he doesn’t wear an American flag lapel pin because it is a “substitute for true patriotism.” Then flash a clip of Obama explaining that his Caucasian grandmother was a “typical white person” because she uttered racial epithets and was afraid of black people.

Finally, the coup de grace, pictures of Obama’s angry, arm-waving preacher blaming the United States for 9/11 and shouting “God Damn America” to the rafters of Chicago’s Trinity United Church of Christ." http://www.nationalpost.com/news/world/story.html?id=392200

Thats exactly how its gonna go down. Obama, the new Gary Hart?

Since when is quoting your opponent an attack ad???

And Switch is just miffed because my sources were better then his sources.  So you can ignore him on that.

Well, its an attack on his character, but as long as Obamas not taken out of context or misquoted (and you dont need to do that to make him look bad), its going to be that rarity in politics- an accurate political attack.

That’s going to be Hillary’s argument to the Super Delegates.  Now that Barack is labeled the Racist Candidate and there’s any number of idiotic statements he’s made that Republicans can use against him - everything from calling his Grandmother a Racist to saying all white people are racist because his Racist Grandmother is typical of the white population all the way too what his friends and family says around him - that he cannot realistically win in November against the extremely “moderate” (read Democrat leaning) Republican John McCain.

Ya know, when the DNC was busy electing McCain for the RNC they said WE were imploding. But look at the DNC!  They’re not only imploding, they in all out Cold War with each other!  It’s a battle to the death, who will lead the party into the new millennium?  The Clintons or the Kennedys?  And, to top it off, they’re disenfranchising 4% of the nation right from the start! (2 out of 50 states is 4%)

If the Dems cant win in this environment, they should pack it in. Start a new “know nothing” party or something.

Gary Hart was not brought down by attack ads.  He was brought down when he DARED the press to follow him to try to find something, and they did… his little tryst on a boat that happened to be called “The Monkey Business”

A lotof Baracs troubles have been of the self-inflicted variety.

Generally speaking, all the democrats troubles in the past two decades have been of the self-inflicted kind.  Republicans just do not go around looking for things to hit democrats with.  However, when you’re given a golden opportunity, you’d be a fool NOT to use it!  If Barry’s going to hang around with racists and call his grandmother not only a racist, but indicative of all white people; then he cannot complain when democrats and republicans a like run from him as fast as possible!

With the more that comes to light on every candidate that is on the ballot, the more I woundn’t mind voting blindfolded….

I wish Kinky Friedman were running. Now there’s someone worth voting for.

@stuka:

With the more that comes to light on every candidate that is on the ballot, the more I woundn’t mind voting blindfolded….

I wish Kinky Friedman were running. Now there’s someone worth voting for.

I just really wish we had an American running for President.

i’d vote for this guy.  he seems pretty american.