I understand that, The Japenese held territories are not going to add a lot to Japans total, maybe 4-6 IPC’s and thats being very generous.
Yes I read the post. I know these are the historical numbers, but that seems to me to be what other people want. So you gave them the historical numbers, and that was some of my observations. I have more.
Thought that was the problem with my proposed IPC system which is not historically correct. But if you want to get technical AAR OA&A is not historically correct either according to your numbers.
Take down US by 5 and UK by 10, That will close the gap to 70 something difference
So….
I wasn’t that far off.
Plus if you go historical you might as as well call it Germany vs the Allies. Also does that mean that whatever the US eventually makes, Germany will make 1 dollar less?
Historical totals is what they want, and if you even adjust them just a little, it’s no longer historical.
thats all I am saying.
@Deaths:
So what we will have in the grand scheme of things is-
ALLIES = 205 IPC’s
AXIS + 123 IPC’s22.5pts over Half of Allied Production
This leaves England room to breath without smothering the Axis powers
So there it is
My 12 CentsTake it as you will. :evil:
DH
Then my suggestion is if the 82 IPC difference is the Issue and still trying to stay Historical how about this
Bump Gemany to 65
Japan 40
Italy 25
total 130
US 70
UK 55
Russia 42
China 10
total 177
for a difference of 47 IPC’s
How’s that for a poke
@Deaths:
Historical totals is what they want, and if you even adjust them just a little, it’s no longer historical.
thats all I am saying.
Nothing about this game is historical correct, just look at the aircraft carriers. In real world a CV carried 80 fighters. If an A&A fighter represent 1000 aircrafts, then an A&A CV carry 2000 fighters, totally ahistoric. And on top of that, when you attack somebody, the fighters on the CV can switch place with some landbased fighters. And look at the infantry, the A&A infantry basically have the same value in both attack and in defense. In real world defense is the strongest, and it takes 3 units to attack 1 unit. But A&A is just a game, like Risk is.
What I want, is the propotions to be historical correct.
Half of UK’s IPC income must be from colonies and dominions
The income from UK (home island only) and FRance (home territory) match the income from Germany (home territory)
If UK is 8 and France is 8, then Germany is 16
France match the Eastern Europe.
If FRance is 8, then the total of Poland, Balkan, Romani etc is 8
USA is dobbel and half the income of Germany
If Germany home is 16, then USA home is 40
Also many small territories dont have IPC income, like you dont get income from impassable Himalaya or Sahara.
Some territories have more ressources than others, like Caucasus has oil and iron, and Kazakhstan has nothing but dust, the Cau must have more value even if it is a game, or I will not bother to play it
The USA was not that much ahead ao Germany as far as production numbers are concerned at this stage of the War. They Just Entered the war so they shouldn’t even be at full time war production The US may have had that lead in production near the end of the war, but not at this stage. Look at Deep Blues historical Numbers a 1% difference. how does that equal 2.5 x more then the US.
Suddenly we are back to IPC numbers.
Is this going around in circles?
To be historical, US production would be small at beginning and Germany production improved around 1945.
The question is should this be covered by map or rule.
Is this variant about map only or also rules?
A link to all the drafts is in my signature.
Cool. Getting more and more professional.
Nothing about this game is historical correct, just look at the aircraft carriers. In real world a CV carried 80 fighters.
Make naval fighters implicit. Thats the only way.
@Deaths:
The USA was not that much ahead ao Germany as far as production numbers are concerned at this stage of the War. They Just Entered the war so they shouldn’t even be at full time war production The US may have had that lead in production near the end of the war, but not at this stage. Look at Deep Blues historical Numbers a 1% difference. how does that equal 2.5 x more then the US.
In 1938 the Gross Domestic Production of USA was $ 800 and the GDP of Germany was $ 350. This GDP increase in the same speed for every power, so lets just keep the 1938 numbers.
In 1938 the USA spend 1 % of $ 800 on military outlays, and Germany spend 23 % of $ 350 on military outlays.
In 1940 the USA spend 2 % of $ 800 on military outlays, and Germany spend 40 % of $ 350 on military outlays.
So in 1940 the Germans still made more guns than the americans, even if the americans was richer and had more ressources available.
Our problem is, for the game purpose, what numbers do we want ?
Do we want a map with fixed IPC income, or a map that start with few IPC, and increase year by year.
It would be represented by the total US piece count.
In other words it’s going to take the US 3-4 turns to get up and running.
They should make a ton of money but start with a token force, make them go last, so the Axis powers have a chance at killing some of it to weaken US further.
I like the other idea of until war is declared on the US, that the US would only get a smaller portion.
@Deaths:
I like the other idea of until war is declared on the US, that the US would only get a smaller portion.
“World at war” from Xeno Games had a rule that gave US only half the IPC until they was in war.
US entry was to roll a dice after each round, if an eye of 1, the US was in war and got full IPC income
I Believe after round 6 or someone attacks the US they enter war in that game round 5 for Russia
I will be going to Milwaukee WI. July 7th to play a Game on Posi’s original map at AIG. If any one lives near by and wants to play, hit me up with a P.M. and I will add you to the list of peeps who want to play.
Deep Blue, I will take pics for you and everyone else so I can post them and you can see the board in later rounds 3 and on.
Did this thread die?
naw… were listening… its hard when we don’t get those map updates on Friday. But the map is done. Now its no rules update were getting or any direction on what is needed or being worked on in the rules.
It’s done?
Where’s the link?
Did he just add it to his sig.
Glad to see that Brazil has been placed in neutral, but what’s that I espy of the coast of southern Guinea? Not the fabled Rio de Oro of Legend, a territory that only ever existed in Axis and Allies?
This is a myth based on incorrect placing of the Spanish Sahara territory in early version. If you must include R de O, place it in the correct place i.e. Western Sahara.
Is there any chance of getting a download of the final map? I’d like to print it out and play on it – thanks.
Cheers,
Raider
PS: This map series is by far the best seen to date as for quality, detail and artwork.
I too wanna print out thisa map, man. How do I do to get the right size, only get a small map A4.
Yes, lets see a full version of the map.
Regarding IPC values, you have to make adjustments for resources, like Romania’s vital (for the Axis) oil supply making it far more valuable than say Denmark, even though Denmark has a higher GDP.
Also the lack of industrialisation in places like China; it’s hardly realistic to allow the Chinese to build battleships even if they reconquer all of China from Japan and have a whopping great IPC income. In fact, as this was a war between industrialised powers, I really don’t see the case for China being a “power” in it’s own right. I prefer two Chinese factions controlled by the USA and USSR respectively.
US income has to be throttled, otherwise the Allies siimply can’t lose.
Soviet military strength was way higher than GDP percentage as it had a highly developed war industry, huge human resourses and payed it’s people peanuts; hence it was much cheaper for the Soviets to build a T-34 than for the Americans to build a technically inferior Sherman. I find it much simpler to reflect this in territorial income values rather than the messy “different unit costs for different powers” approach.
Is he back yet?
where did he go?
He’s on the Can Give the Man a Break!!! What’s with you people? :roll:
GG
