Kwas (Axis) V. VictoryFirst (Allies) - Europe, Game 2
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2d6<=2: 1, 5; Hits: 1
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Russian sub is taken as casualty.
Round 2,
1 S [dice 1d6<=2] (surprise strike)3 D [dice 3d6<=3]
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1d6<=2: 3; Hits: 0
3d6<=3: 1, 5, 6; Hits: 1 -
Sub returns fire
[dice 1d6<=2] -
1d6<=2: 1; Hits: 1
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TripleA Turn Summary: Americans round 8
TripleA Turn Summary for game: Europe Improved
Game History
Round: 8 Purchase Units - Americans Americans buy 2 artilleries, 4 infantry and 3 transports; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; Combat Move - Americans 2 infantry moved from Baltic States to Baltic Sea Sea Zone 1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Leningrad to Baltic Sea Sea Zone 1 artillery, 3 infantry and 2 transports moved from Baltic Sea Sea Zone to Danish Sea Sea Zone 2 destroyers moved from Baltic Sea Sea Zone to Danish Sea Sea Zone 1 destroyer moved from Celtic Sea Sea Zone to Danish Sea Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from Celtic Sea Sea Zone to Danish Sea Sea Zone 3 artilleries and 3 infantry moved from United Kingdom to Celtic Sea Sea Zone 3 artilleries, 3 infantry and 3 transports moved from Celtic Sea Sea Zone to Danish Sea Sea Zone 4 artilleries and 6 infantry moved from Danish Sea Sea Zone to Germany 1 artillery and 6 infantry moved from Eastern France to Germany Combat - Americans Battle in Danish Sea Sea Zone Americans attack with 3 destroyers, 1 submarine and 5 transports; Russians loiter and taunt Germans defend with 2 submarines Americans roll dice for 1 submarine in Danish Sea Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits 1 submarine owned by the Germans lost in Danish Sea Sea Zone Americans roll dice for 3 destroyers and 5 transports in Danish Sea Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/3 hits, 1.50 expected hits Germans roll dice for 1 submarine in Danish Sea Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits 1 submarine owned by the Germans lost in Danish Sea Sea Zone Americans win with 3 destroyers, 1 submarine and 5 transports remaining. Battle score for attacker is 16 Casualties for Germans: 2 submarines Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Danish Sea Sea Zone: 1 submarine EDIT: Removing units owned by Americans from Danish Sea Sea Zone: 1 submarine EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode Battle in Germany Americans attack with 5 artilleries and 12 infantry Germans defend with 1 aaGun, 1 factory, 1 fighter and 8 infantry Americans roll dice for 5 artilleries and 12 infantry in Germany, round 2 : 3/17 hits, 4.50 expected hits Germans roll dice for 1 fighter and 8 infantry in Germany, round 2 : 2/9 hits, 3.33 expected hits 2 infantry owned by the Americans lost in Germany 3 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Germany Americans roll dice for 5 artilleries and 10 infantry in Germany, round 3 : 5/15 hits, 4.17 expected hits Germans roll dice for 1 fighter and 5 infantry in Germany, round 3 : 3/6 hits, 2.33 expected hits 3 infantry owned by the Americans lost in Germany 5 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Germany Americans roll dice for 5 artilleries and 7 infantry in Germany, round 4 : 6/12 hits, 3.67 expected hits Germans roll dice for 1 fighter in Germany, round 4 : 1/1 hits, 0.67 expected hits 1 infantry owned by the Americans lost in Germany 1 fighter owned by the Germans lost in Germany Americans captures 51PUs while taking Germans capital Americans win, taking Germany from Germans with 5 artilleries and 6 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 18 Casualties for Americans: 6 infantry Casualties for Germans: 1 fighter and 8 infantry Non Combat Move - Americans Trigger AlliedVictoryConditionsMet: Setting switch to true for conditionAttachmentAlliedVictorySwitch attached to Americans 1 transport moved from Baltic Sea Sea Zone to English Channel Sea Zone 3 artilleries and 3 infantry moved from United States to U.S. Eastern Coast Sea Zone 3 artilleries, 3 infantry and 3 transports moved from U.S. Eastern Coast Sea Zone to Celtic Sea Sea Zone 2 fighters moved from United States to United Kingdom 3 artilleries and 3 infantry moved from Celtic Sea Sea Zone to United Kingdom Place Units - Americans 2 artilleries and 4 infantry placed in United States 3 transports placed in U.S. Eastern Coast Sea Zone Turn Complete - Americans Americans collect 49 PUs; end with 100 PUsCombat Hit Differential Summary :
Americans regular : 1.83 Germans regular : -0.67 -
Forgot the -8 for America lol
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Interesting that you feel this way. It takes two turns for Americans transports to do relevant things, 1 turn if you’re going for Morocco. It takes about three turns for American fighters to reach Moscow (2 for Lenin, so I do feel it is more important in the early game for Americans to build fighters).
I think you do eventually need to get the American shuck going. I feel like you got the American shuck down - three sets of transports is the way to go, imo.
Lol, maybe once again you are right. I did G8 myself trying to see if there is a way to victory but they are actually more under pressure than I thought. Perhaps you can take out Central France, then abandon Belorussia to move to Leningrad in force, then you might be able to take Scandinavian/Northern Russian territories and bleed out the Russians. And build up a stack of infantry in Germany.
Yeah I think the transport shock can be effective but usually Moscow falls on G6 and at that moment the US hasn’t had enough time to do anything useful. Landing in Morocco is indeed one turn away but I don’t think it hurts the Germans as much. Taking the Northern Italy factory is quite difficult if Germany defends it. The easiest thing to do is to land in Holland but threatening Germany is difficult as the Allies have a multi-national force which is always less effective in attacking.
This game is special as the Germans are not in a position to take out Moscow and are actually threatened to be attacked in Belorussia (which honestly surprises me, I wonder where they lost their strenght). In my experience the Germans in the late game can simply build stacks of infantry and then a couple of tanks for Moscow and the odds on attacking Berlin are only getting worse for the Allies while Moscow is only getting better for Germany. But I have to say that in those situations, the Germans were able to squeeze more income from the Russian by having captured several Russian territories around Moscow, so that might play a role too.
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@VictoryFirst you outsmarted me. I forgot the Russian bombers could attack my my sub lol
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@VictoryFirst said in Kwas (Axis) V. VictoryFirst (Allies) - Europe, Game 2:
Interesting that you feel this way. It takes two turns for Americans transports to do relevant things, 1 turn if you’re going for Morocco. It takes about three turns for American fighters to reach Moscow (2 for Lenin, so I do feel it is more important in the early game for Americans to build fighters).
I think you do eventually need to get the American shuck going. I feel like you got the American shuck down - three sets of transports is the way to go, imo.
Lol, maybe once again you are right. I did G8 myself trying to see if there is a way to victory but they are actually more under pressure than I thought. Perhaps you can take out Central France, then abandon Belorussia to move to Leningrad in force, then you might be able to take Scandinavian/Northern Russian territories and bleed out the Russians. And build up a stack of infantry in Germany.
Yeah I think the transport shock can be effective but usually Moscow falls on G6 and at that moment the US hasn’t had enough time to do anything useful. Landing in Morocco is indeed one turn away but I don’t think it hurts the Germans as much. Taking the Northern Italy factory is quite difficult if Germany defends it. The easiest thing to do is to land in Holland but threatening Germany is difficult as the Allies have a multi-national force which is always less effective in attacking.
This game is special as the Germans are not in a position to take out Moscow and are actually threatened to be attacked in Belorussia (which honestly surprises me, I wonder where they lost their strenght). In my experience the Germans in the late game can simply build stacks of infantry and then a couple of tanks for Moscow and the odds on attacking Berlin are only getting worse for the Allies while Moscow is only getting better for Germany. But I have to say that in those situations, the Germans were able to squeeze more income from the Russian by having captured several Russian territories around Moscow, so that might play a role too.
I think I built too many tanks, I don’t know. I think you made some good points about the Eastern Front and Africa. I think I got pretty unlucky on the Eastern Front turn 1 and I should have retreated with that artillery in Bessarabia lol. But I had very good luck in the Atlantic turn 1 so I thought this would even out turn, especially since your extra destroyer was basically wasted due to my good luck.
I was feeling pretty good by the time G4/G5 ended. Then I was kinda shocked how quickly I felt pressure from the Western Allies around G6/G7. There was like zero pressure the last two turns. This is the flaw of the tank push, I guess. If it doesn’t work quickly enough, you start to crumble real quickly.
But if the below average luck on turn 1 Eastern Front is bad enough to make the strategy not work, it may not be invincible. The game is still probably imbalanced, but this isn’t the broken mess I was expecting it to be. (I’m always willing to change my mind tho lol)
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Lol I wanted to see this so i am going to past it here for future reference
Combat Hit Differential Summary :
Americans regular : 2.33 Russians regular : -0.83 Germans regular : -1.83 Russians AA : -0.83 -
Yeah I am not sure either if it were dice that caused Germany’s loss or the too many units you sent to the Middle East lol. Probably a mix of both. I think the Germans should be able to win every game unless they get insanely diced. Take a look at my 3rd game against Ragnell, there I got completely curve-stomped as the Allies lol. Here is a link: https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/41241/ragnell804-germany-vs-victoryfirst-allies-original-europe-game-3/17?_=1727726657073
However our game proved that the Allies can still win. We need to play more of these games before any of these questions can be answered. I think at the moment the best Allied strategy is a mix between fighters and transports, after my game against Ragnell I’m probably leaning more towards transports than fighters as Moscow cannot be held indefinitely. It is going to fall at some point and you better get some sort of transport shuck going before that happens.
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