The Map Modification Question

No, I know my OOB, I am just saying if you want to add something more… If you were to do that, I would say allow them to shoot once (per nation) at any non-submarine Naval Vessel that passes through the straights…

GG

Yea id go for that as well. only Gibrater and possibly the denmark straights and the english channel should get this. In Turkey into the black sea it should just not be allowed and treated as the panama and suez canal.

id say two rolls of three for each passing of enemy ships per turn. Also any planes at gibrater can immediatly intercept and attack these ships in addition to the free preemtive barrage.

Ok so no restrictions on force buildup at Gibraltar, let them put 10 ARM there.

Yeah ok Turkey/Black Sea now act like Panama and Suez Canal. But really Balkan and Turkey should be adjacent territories?

Denmark straights is certainly reasonable.
It would be Germany realistically…but the AAR map made it look like it should be France with the ability attack ships entering Baltic Sea?

English channel is a bit over the top though

The idea of adding the English channel was due to this:

http://www.scharnhorst-class.dk/scharnhorst/history/scharncerberus.html

as you can see these channels were mined and it is quite easy to intercept ships via air and such… its not exactly a gun of navarone thing but perhaps it may fit the profile as we have for the Danish straights.

oh I see
actually this can be quite important
it models the restrictions Germany had with surface ships

so what do you think about Balkan and Turkey?
I think realistically they should act as adjacent territories for non-combat move but not combat-move
but thats too complicated so I guess forget it

oh I see
actually this can be quite important
it models the restrictions Germany had with surface ships

so what do you think about Balkan and Turkey?
I think realistically they should act as adjacent territories for non-combat move but not combat-move
but thats too complicated so I guess forget it

Treat Turkey the same as suez and panama… meaning Turkey has to be allied or conquered ( under your control) for ships to pass.

IN the dannish straights finland must be controlled?

balkans and turkey dont both need to be controlled because the turkish straights are Turkish territory on both sides.

What we should allow is land units to pass from (or attack) from Balkans to Turkey.

@Imperious:

IN the dannish straights finland must be controlled?

Norway or Finland?

What we should allow is land units to pass from (or attack) from Balkans to Turkey.

ok so you also think its reasonable

Norway or Finland?

++++ id does not matter . its the same territory on the map. Under the new map we could change this

Quote
What we should allow is land units to pass from (or attack) from Balkans to Turkey.

ok so you also think its reasonable

+++ yep

@Imperious:

Norway or Finland?
++++ id does not matter . its the same territory on the map. Under the new map we could change this

In the new map it would be Norway not Finland right?

The original map has them as one. The new map with Italy will have them as seperate.

I mean it would be Norway not Finland that has the special ability.

Yes correct.

With this special interdiction thing at Norway and Gilbratar. I don’t know where to post so I just post here.

Name? Strait Interdiction?

When? Both Combat and Non-Combat?

The Model? Unlimited firing? Return fire by ships stopping further firing for the turn?

Straight Interdiction is a good name

1. The Denmark straights ( germany) were lined with submarine nets and this ID defence, not norway.
   Penalty: 2 rolls of three against any ship that attempts to pass into Baltic. also immediate air interdiction possible from any planes in Germany.

2. The Gibraltar straights : Much the same thing but with more guns. The pattern to get thru the straights was a laid out zig zag pattern of sub nets, while this was under the full “gauntlet” of guns shooting at ships. Penalty: 2 rolls of three for any axis ship going into or out of the straights.Of course planes in GIbrater base can immediatly interdict.

Note: Soviet ships built or placed in the Baltic face the same penalties. If they stay in the Baltic thats fine, but if they move out they get shot at.

Strait of Gibraltar - Gibraltar - SZ 12/13
Denmark - Germany - SZ 5/6
English Channel - United Kingdom/Western Europe - SZ 6/7

2 rolls of three

Why 2 dice? How about simply…
Roll a dice against each enemy ship hitting on 4 or less.

immediate air interdiction possible

We already have…
Air interdiction (made during active turn, performed during passive turn) covering adjacent territories/SZ
Defensive Air Support (made during active turn) letting you fight in adjacent territories/SZ

Its getting complicated. To streamline this Air Interdiction should be a rapid response thing just like Defensive Air Support).

2 rolls of three
Why 2 dice? How about simply…
Roll a dice against each enemy ship hitting on 4 or less.

+++ If we do that its basically saying " forget it" dont cross the straights… the concept of “too many targets to hit” is possible when say 15 ships try to pass. How can we then say the guns of gibratar can attack an armada of ships? the 2 figure can move about but their has to be some limitations on this. Its like were treating it like some Alien Lazer base with hundreds of guns and a million men wating for the enemy. Its just a base with a few guns and a sub net to trap any unwanted enemy subs and not the “guns of navarone” or the Death Star.

too many targets to hit

Whats what I thought at the beginning. There should be a limit number of dice against an unlimited enemy fleet size.
But then I misunderstood and your meaning with all that stuff about ships having to zig-zag and stuff.

Ok so 2 dices each hitting on 3 or less.
Is that enough?

And is this a targetted attack?

Give a reason why it shouldn’t be a targetted attack… Usually they were aiming them at particular ships, unless you want to represent the possibilities of hitting adjacents…

GG

OK targetted attack.

Now, we gotta tidy up the air interdiction situation mentioned above.

Can we change it to a rapid response like Defensive Air Support?
Its complicated when its deployed during your turn, like at the moment.

Lets just finish this ID thing DAS is for another thread.

anyway… Im good with 2 rolls at 3 unless somebody want more?