AARHE: Rule files

Logistics
Quote
Example: Axis have 2 transports, so all units greater than 4 cost 1 IPC to maintain in Africa?
it’ll be unrealistic cos say the German transports could be in the Baltic

Oh yes i guess i didnt say transports in Medd. OK lets remove logistics for now and come back.

also, think the goal at the moment is to
*simplify complex but important rules
*remove or make optional complex but unimportant rules (rules that only affect non-core gameplay anyway)

Spending or Saving IPC - removed

Convoy Raid
Quote
SO you don’t like the fun of rolling it out? I think its fun to get to roll dice and possibly get 1,2 or 3 IPC damage
removing unneeded dice is only secondary
the primary issue is I think 1 IPC per submarine is powerful enough already

ok lets do this… which is the original idea from day one… 1 IPC but for each sub in specific ocean…or somebody buys subs out of harms way to qualify.

Lend-Lease - done

Naval repair
yeah ideally  there should be cost and time
but we have to find something simple
cost: ok d6 is fine
time: you cannot use the unit this turn

right 1 D6, plus you wait one turn for repair to conclude and its done at SZ adjacent to factory. Also, if you roll 1-2 perhaps you can repair at neutral -1/+1  ( the ones you can dock at)

i am going on a trip till wednesday so i cant respond till then.

Quote
ok lets do this… which is the original idea from day one… 1 IPC but for each sub in specific ocean…or somebody buys subs out of harms way to qualify.
yeah is has to be general enough yet not irrelevant
don’t want to bleed players neither

proposal text (informal langauge):

Convoy Raid
You collect 1 less IPC from an Island in the Pacific Ocean for every enemy submarine in its adjacent sea zone.

The UK player collects 1 less IPC for each German submarine or destroyer in sea zones 7 to 15 and 33 to 35. Maximum damage is 10 IPC.

The USSR player collects 1 less Lend-Lease IPC for each German submarine or destroyer in sea zones 3 and 4. Maximum damage is 5 IPC.

I like the text, but not liking the IPC cap. I dont think it should be capped. Also, If a German sub is in specific SZ, i propose this:

German player takes all his subs and consults a chart and rolls a die. He indexes his result with his total number of subs and targets either UK or USA. I will make a chart for each. That way is not so fixed and the result can target one or the other.

You can also do it this way: all subs within 2 SZ of a UK or USA territory roll on these charts, so you need subs near those territory to qualify.

ON lend lease, you take total subs German has and references it to total Lend Lease, so if USA sends in more, then more can be sunk

example: Germany has 3 subs, usa sent 12 IPC…rolls die…then Germans sink 4 IPC

Germany has 3 subs, usa sent 20 IPC…rolls die…then Germans sink 7 IPC

Quote
right 1 D6, plus you wait one turn for repair to conclude and its done at SZ adjacent to factory. Also, if you roll 1-2 perhaps you can repair at neutral -1/+1  ( the ones you can dock at)
yeah we’ll work on neutrals in phase 8 diplomacy
especially since I am leaning towards neutrals should be optional

proposal text:

Naval Repair
Damaged naval units can be repaired in sea zones adjacent to a friendly Industrial Complex. Roll a die and pay the value in IPC. Place the unit in the territory and return it to the sea zone upright in “Mobilize New Units” phase.

ok i am good with this. Diplomacy would be optional BUT included with the document.

proposal text
Convoy Raid

You collect 1 less IPC from an Island in the Pacific Ocean for every enemy submarine in the Island’s sea zone.

The UK player collects 1 less IPC for each German submarine or destroyer in sea zones 7, 8, 11, and 12.

The Allies receive 1 less Lend-Lease IPC for each German submarine or destroyer in sea zones 1,2, 3, 4, 9 and 10. Damages in sea zone 3 and 4 can only be applied to USSR.

I think the UK and USA should be expanded: USA east coast and gulf of Mexico/west indies/Brazil. UK: some SZ off africa and off Middle east

Quote from: Imperious Leader on December 11, 2008, 12:29:25 pm
I like the text, but not liking the IPC cap. I dont think it should be capped.
yeah ok
I’ve got rid of the cap as you wish, if you change your mind we can set a new higher limit

The reason for capping is that the new system models hitting general shipping rather than flow of war shippping. War economy has more immunity than general economy. Also, wouldn’t want to see players bleed ridiculously.

For UK to bleed that much Germany would need to build way too many subs and lose the game elsewhere.

Quote
Also, If a German sub is in specific SZ, i propose this:
German player takes all his subs and consults a chart and rolls a die. He indexes his result with his total number of subs and targets either UK or USA. I will make a chart for each. That way is not so fixed and the result can target one or the other.
Consulting a chart might be too much. The new system should be simpler than the old system.
Recall the primary reason for not using dice is that 1 IPC per submarine is powerful enough. Secondary reason was so we have a simpler rule.

ok we keep it simple.

Quote
You can also do it this way: all subs within 2 SZ of a UK or USA territory roll on these charts, so you need subs near those territory to qualify.
Wait. Remember you wanted to have specific sea zone so the game is not decided in Brazil lol.
Also, it was your idea that US, Germany and USSR be not affected by Convoy Raids. Only UK, Pacific and Lend Lease.

ok ok

Quote
ON lend lease, you take total subs German has and references it to total Lend Lease, so if USA sends in more, then more can be sunk
example: Germany has 3 subs, usa sent 12 IPC…rolls die…then Germans sink 4 IPC
Germany has 3 subs, usa sent 20 IPC…rolls die…then Germans sink 7 IPC
yeah ok
no limits to lend lease damage

ok ok

Quote
ok i am good with this. Diplomacy would be optional BUT included with the document.
yeah ok
since it is a phase in the turn sequence, its reasonable to give exception to Diplomacy and include in the main document

ok ok ill make these changes and revise text. Ill post it tomorrow or monday. Then we continue on next section.

hopefully the new file follows our discussion sharply

yes exactly.

yeah already looking forward to phase 2: purchase units and developments

also we could do phase 0 first

WE should do the parts in the same sequence as they are printed in the file so its easy to track.

I was thinking we could remove
*references to websites to download AARHE
*references to websites to buy game pieces
*victory cities with 0 victory city points (since the only purpose of them was to repair naval units but we only allow that at an Industrial Complex now)

Lets not get hasty till we are done and need to integrate it as replacement for lite 1.0

Yea i have been busy…

Phase 2: Purchase Units and Developments

Variable Industrial Complex Costs, Scorched Earth
Thinking of putting it together under one heading Industrial Complex.
You proposed “cost = 15 - IPC”. I am ok.

yes this is a simple way to do it.done.

Variable Infantry Costs
In http://www.mediafire.com/?ntw0nuzm2zc you proposed “infantry per turn = IPC”. I am ok but I want “build infantry at VC only” rule to remain.
You didn’t proposed infantry cost changes. No changes from me at this stage.

Yea infantry at VC limited by the value of the VC in addition to the rule from OOB. But at original home factories you should be able to build non infantry pieces limited by IPC PLUS infantry also at this level again limited by IPC

So at Germany they can make 10 infantry and 10 units of any other type except infantry…. Important to know that you cant build 11 or more infantry in Germany at any time.

Purchase Developments
In http://www.mediafire.com/?ntw0nuzm2zc you didn’t proposed changes. No changes from me at this stage.

Ill post the next section tonight.

Tunisia

was not spelled correctly.

Quote
But at original home factories you should be able to build non infantry pieces limited by IPC PLUS infantry also at this level again limited by IPC
Yeah. But this limit already applies to all IC.
Original or not, an IC can only produce a number of non-infantry units up to its IPC value.

I am saying something different. at original home factories you are limited as follows:

1. you can build non infantry up to IPC value
2. you can ALSO build infantry up to IPC value

so in berlin you can build 10 tanks and 10 infantry, but you cant build 15 infantry and 5 tanks. This is not OOB rules at all.
this is different. AT VC you again go by the value of IPC and can build only infantry at this value.

Purchase Developments
Can we simplify this one. Instead of the current free/purchasable

Germany  2/4
Italy  1/2
Japan 1/3
Soviet Union 1/3
United Kingdom 1/2
United States 2/4

Can we just make it

Germany and US 2/4
Other 1/2

Isn’t this too soon?

Victory City (non-binding discussing, just an understanding)
now that we have a simpler infantry limit, we no longer require victory city points varying between 0 and- 6 points. I sugguest simplify to major cities 2 points and minor cities 1 point. We’ll talk about this when we get back to introduction / game sequence.

I think alot of discussion went on these points and for various reasons they were assigned this value and its printed on the map, so not sure if changes would ruin the game. They focus historical based objectives from these values. If it was 2 and 1 players would treat the VC as the same and not focus on the strong points… Thus battle of Stalingrad may never develop

Quote
Isn’t this too soon?
what do you mean by “too soon”?

you mean too rushed ?
I am not sugguesting this change for balance
just trying to say it warrants a simplification

you mean too early in game sequence / document ?

No its fine.

in AARHE we buy developement dice before combat, and roll for them after combat
so you can’t see tech result and perform combat accordingly
nor can you see combat result and buy tech dice accordingly
hence OOB’s the phase is called “purchase unit and developments”

but if you feel its too tedious to make players buy the dice first and roll for them later in the turn
then we let them buy and roll in same game phase like OOB

yes at the same time. good. construct proposed text.

Quote
I think alot of discussion went on these points and for various reasons they were assigned this value and its printed on the map, so not sure if changes would ruin the game. They focus historical based objectives from these values. If it was 2 and 1 players would treat the VC as the same and not focus on the strong points… Thus battle of Stalingrad may never develop
yeah, that discussion was back in 2006, you me and The Duke mainly
we used a few matrices to determine infantry raising capacity of nations
this became the VCP values
it is used for infantry build limit

It was created for more than one purpose. It conveyed mainly the value of these centers for the focus of battles, so the value cant be the simple 1 or 2 thing… thats would totally ruin the work. They had a secondary purpose of limiting infantry placement and costs.

VCPs is now only used for victory condition
so I sugguested a simplification to make it easier (eg. 2 VCP for Berlin, Rome, London….1 VCP for Kiev, Cairo…)
if you think its too simple we can have up to 3 points, or even 4 points

perhaps 0-5 scale, but the victory condition value was based on this index, so going 1/2 system would require many hours of thought with marginal change in play. keep the thing as it is. Thats not what was complicated about AARHE. Its everything else.

This is Phase three.

Phase 3: Combat Move

Land Movement
All units may move according to their movement restrictions and all land units with any unused movement points left over may allocate it to move to any other territory, even to reinforce or leave territories they had just attacked.

Air Movement
All fighters do not have to be launched before movement of aircraft carrier. They can move their full movement as long as the final movement is on a Carrier or Land territory. Players may not land on each others Carriers. Air units are not subject Anti-Air when overflying hostile territories. This only occurs when they attack a territory that contains an AA gun.

Airborne Drop
Bomber may act as transport for one airborne infantry to a hostile territory. Both units must start in the same territory. The airborne infantry may not retreat from this combat. If optional unit transport plane is taken only it may act as transport for airborne infantry. Unit offloaded before “Conduct Combat”. The bomber must drop off the airborne troops in the first enemy territory encountered.

Naval Movement
Naval units may go through and ignore sea zones consisting of only hostile submarines or transports. But if you move your unescorted transports into or thru sea zones occupied by enemy submarines, each defending submarine rolls its combat value. Each successful roll sinks one transport. Remaining transports may continue their operations.

Naval units
Naval units may remain in hostile sea zone without entering combat. This situation arises from newly built naval units, naval combat retreat via break-off, or withdrawal via submerge.

Submarine Movement
Submarines may go through hostile sea zones except zones containing an ASW unit. Each defending ASW unit rolls a die at ASW search value. Each successful roll forces one submarine to enter combat. Unforced submarines may choose to enter combat as well in that sea zone or continue their original movement. These rules are explained in detail latter.

Strait Interdiction
You may fire at hostile non-submarine naval units moving between the sea zones if you hold the respective territories. Roll 1 die against each unit destroying it on its hit value. Movement between the sea zones must be done in “Combat Move” if enemy controls the respective territories.

Territories Sea Zones Hit Value
Gibraltar   12/13 2
United Kingdom     6/7 1
Western Europe     6/7 1
Turkey   15/16 2

Terrain
All land units must stop on entering desert, snowy, or mountainous terrains. Tank (and optional unit mechanised infantry) may not blitz through them. All defending land units in a snowy or mountainous terrain have their defence increased by 1. Small Island territories such as Gibraltar and small Pacific Islands cannot be occupied by more than 2 units or cannot be attacked by more than 2 units.

Stalin Xenophobia
NO mixing of any units with Soviet units (including naval). Soviet Units can liberate Japanese occupied Chinese territories and that’s the only time they can enter China. Soviet units can also ‘liberate’ any Axis occupied territories and keep them as their own even if they were previously owned by Allied nations.

Rome-Berlin-Tokyo Axis Co-operation
Before Allies capture the Axis capitals Berlin or Tokyo, Japanese units may not be in the same territory or sea zone as German or Italian units.

Soviet winter
Once per game the Soviets can declare a severe winter just prior to the German player rolling for attacks and it effects the game as follows: All Soviet land units defend at +1 for the first round of combat, and all German units rolling a 5 or 6 must withdraw from further combat that turn.

Partisans
If the German or Italian player controls soviet territories but does not garrison them with at least one land unit, Partisans can attempt attacks on the IPC value as follows: For each un-garrisoned territory the German player rolls one D6 1-2= 1 IPC lost, 3-4= 2 IPC lost 5-6= 3 IPC lost.

Soviet Factories
The Soviet player can move 1 factory per turn to any other originally controlled territory.

OK lets do this. Ill update the file, we script the exact wording here section by section.

I have MS word/office and your software is not good for this. The correct section 3 is posted. I will take section 1 and 2 and integrate into the document. We are not using 4.0 as reference, what i created is a word friendly version thats readable. The ideas contained are what we decide to keep or change.