Typing from a smartphone is the best way to respond LOL! So sorry for the typos and grammar.
Anyways Hotspurs. I really encourage you and others to play around with the game.
AARHE: Phase 3: Revised NA's
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- I don’t think we need “Tank Industry” anymore, served by T-34 which is not as unbalancing
- “Partisans” is very toy-like, how about reducing the no. of possibilities?
ok what do you think?
what is toy like?
Also i thought of that two D6 idea as well but its better to use a d12 die rather than 2 d6 because 2 is the lowest number
BUT>>>
i dont think its a good idea to artificially limit the NA’s of all nations (or add marginal ideas) to the number of 12 because its the number on a dice…
rather i prefer the use of chits (cardboard counters numbered say 1-15) . these are used to randomly select the NA’s and the number of chits that are in excess are removed from play before that nation draws… so if italy has for example only 9 choices then the chits are displayed numbering 1-9, placed face down and rearranged and drawn.
People could even use a marker and write on the gray chips 1-15.
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like the partisan rule has so many possiblities it seems like lottery
yeah alright, just randomly
doesnt matter its dice or chits -
ahh well i have to cover at least 3 ideas:
germans lose money due to sabatoge
partisans kill/destroy germans control local areas within territory
partisans are liquidated by the SS
railroads are cut slowing down movement into/thru these areas.
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I edited out soviet tanks. Are their any other problems with list?
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I think you edited out the wrong one.
You removed “T-34 Tanks”.
You were supposed to remove “Tank Industry”, because its the unbalancing one of the two.
Or is there some miss understanding? :| -
ok fixed anything else? time to begin germany?
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yeah I guess I am fine with the lottery rule too :wink:
time to start germany
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Germany National Advantages
2. Panzer Grenadiers
During World War II, the Germans had troops that were designed for fighting alongside tanks. These were fully motorized units, so that they could at all times keep up with the tanks. Each of your tanks gives one matching infantry one additional movement allowance. The tank and the infantry unit must leave from the same territory.3. Atlantic Wall
The Germans fortified the European beaches with massive defensive concrete blockhouses that formed part of the German defensive "Atlantic Wallâ€. During any amphibious assault against Axis controlled Western Europe (except for African territories), all your infantry defend on a 3 during the first cycle of combat.7. Fortress Europe
By protecting the Third Reich on all sides, Germany built fortified defensive lines and established strongpoint on key terrain in Europe. Your artillery in German territories defends on a 3.8. German 88’s
During the first cycle of combat only, on Attack and Defence, your artillery fire in the Conduct Opening Fire phase (instead of the Attacking Units fire and Defending Units fire phases respectively). Casualties are removed immediately. When declared, place 2 free artillery in any Gray territory you control, during the Mobilize Units phase of this turn only.9. Panzer blitz
If your attacking forces destroy all defending units in a territory in one cycle of combat, any of your surviving armor may move 1 territory during non-combat movement.10. Afrika Corps
Once per game place 2 infantry, 1 artillery, and 2 Armor for free in Libya if you control it, during your Mobilize Units phase.11. Volkstrum infantry
Once per game, the German player may purchase Infantry for 2 IPC each. This cannot be performed unless a territory in Europe, controlled by Germany at the start of the game, is controlled by any Allied player.13. SS Panzer.
These may be built, 1 per turn. A maximum of 4 can be on the map at any time. They are built as and have the same attributes as Heavy Tanks without requiring the Heavy Tank technology. In combat they may ignore the 1st hit assigned to them as they take two hits to destroy and all their attacks are rolled pre-emptively.14. Albert Speer & German Industrial rationalisation
On turn 5 the territory of Germany is worth double value (but the original value for any strategic attacks & original value for occupation).15. Defend the homeland
The German player may call up to six infantry when any original German territory (grey) is under attack. (money for these units paid for on the following turn even if your getting them this turn). -
@Imperious:
Germany National Advantages
1. U-Boat Program
During World War II, 1,162 U-Boats were built, and these U-Boats sank 14,687,231 tons of Allied shipping. Your submarines now cost 6 IPC’s.In conflict with the national build option…
@Imperious:
2. Panzer Grenadiers
During World War II, the Germans had troops that were designed for fighting alongside tanks. These were fully motorized units, so that they could at all times keep up with the tanks. Each of your tanks gives one matching infantry one additional movement allowance. The tank and the infantry unit must leave from the same territory.Only OK in games without optional units, but only if Mech infantry is optional (which I will mention with the Afrika Korps NA) otherwise fine NA
@Imperious:
4. Wolf Packs
Wolf packs of U-boats prowled the Atlantic, working together to down Allied convoys. The only sure thing about a U-boat was that there always was another nearby. Your subs attack on a 3 or less in the opening fire step of combat. This increased attack factor is for the first cycle of combat only.Wolf Packs are standard in Historical Edition already…
@Imperious:
6. Soft underbelly
The Gustav line in Italy was ordered to hold at all costs. Those costs included tens of thousands of men on both sides. German artillery in grey green (Italian) territories defends on a 3, except for African territories.7. Fortress Europe
By protecting the Third Reich on all sides, Germany built fortified defensive lines and established strongpoint on key terrain in Europe. Your artillery in German territories defends on a 3.Can’t these two be put together? I like the Soft underbelly naming (historical accurate) but IMO it can also be covered in the Fortress Europe NA Not??
@Imperious:
10. Afrika Corps
Once per game place 2 mechanized infantry, 1 artillery, and 2 Armor for free in Libya if you control it, during your Mobilize Units phase.Mechanized infantry is missing in the optional units list until now… So this NA should be corrected. Replace it with 2 infantry?? or should it be more like 1 inf, 1art and 1 arm placed once during the game in Libya during your Mobilize Units phase, if you or your allies (Italy) controll it. ?? (added Italy, because the NA only mentions if you controll it. Which isn’t necessary IMO )
@Imperious:
11. until infantry
Once per game, the German player may purchase Infantry for 2 UPC each. This cannot be performed unless a territory in Europe, controlled by Germany at the start of the game, is controlled by any Allied player.How many, or is it unlimited for that turn only??
@Imperious:
12. Baltic Sea defences. The allies may not invade Germany amphibiously from any of the two adjacent North Sea areas. They can invade from the Kategat or Baltic Sea areas (after any combat rolls from the coastal Copenhagen defences). They may invade Denmark only if Norway is first conquered. Secondly, as long as Denmark is Axis held, then any Allied naval units entering / staying in this area are subject to an automatic attack. Roll d6 per ship. On a 5-6 it takes 2 hits. On a 2-4 it takes 1 hit. (- 1 for allied destroyers, -2 for submarines). Roll at the start of the combat phase.
This NA is not suited for this game. Denmark isn’t a separate territory, but part of Western Europe. You can’t change only the name, because why should the Allies try a amphibious assault on Germany if they controll Norway and Western Europe. They will come directly from Western Europe and make this NA worthless in the process. However I think we could make another NA rule for Baltic Sea Defences… this because in WWII it would have been nearly impossible for the allies to invade Germany from the Baltic!! Thoughts??
@Imperious:
13. SS / elite units.
These may be built, 1 per turn from winter 1942. A maximum of 6 can be on the map at any time. They are built as and have the same attributes as Heavy Tanks. In combat they may ignore the 1st hit assigned to them as they take two hits to destroy and all their attacks are rolled pre-emptively.First of all, we haven’t build in a timetable in the game right? only that it starts in spring 1942 right? So this should be possible from turn 2 then?
This will be a very strong NA, if players are playing without the Heavy Tank as a optional unit… BTW instead of using a Max. build of 6, you could also say, these units take 2 turns to build. to resemble the extra training of elite formations@Imperious:
14. Albert Speer & German Industrial rationalisation
In 1944 all areas of Germany are worth double value (but the original value for any strategic attacks & original value for occupation).I would say ONLY the territory of Germany itself. And which turn number should we use to resemble 1944? turn 5? ( if a turn is six months)
@Imperious:
15. Defend the homelandÂ
The German player may call up to six infantry when any original German territory is under attack, using the same rules as for the Soviet Militia.In conflict with Volkstrum Infantry, and that one is better also!! Not??
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1. U-Boat Program
yep we shall use the one from National Build, since its limited hence not unbalancing4. Wolf Packs
yep Wolf Packs is standard now6. Soft underbelly
7. Fortress Europe
that could be separate NAs because it might be too powerful
(its now 1 random NA per round, for first 3 rounds)12. Baltic Sea defences
Denmark is now part of Germany (we had map change)
the automatic attack is already under “Strait Interdiction”
did you mean to say you can’t amphibious assault Germany unless you hold Sweden?13. SS / elite units.
so probably called “SS Panzer” instead?
the opening-fire ability…we can either do without (I slightly prefer) or we go change the “Heavy Tank” spec to include it
it’ll be tidier
the NA becomes concise “You may build 1 H.ARM (Heavy Tank) per turn from turn 2, without requiring the Heavy Tank technology.”
I don’t think it’ll be unbalancing since its just 1 per turn, could reduce it to 4 max. on the map14. Albert Speer & German Industrial rationalisation
condition based instead?
triggers once income drops below a certain amount, or once Western and Southern Europe falls?
and only for the “Germany” territory otherwise the game practically restarts
(and note Italy map has 20 IPC Germany…)15. Defend the homeland
oh, don’t let NAs make reference to other NAs in its definition…confusing
and its “National Advantage” you know… -
Sorry i use ideas that are for AA europe and mixed them in somehow. :-(
Anyway they are fixed but now it appears that we need alot more to get to at least 12-15. Lots of choices makes things more fun when the draw comes down.
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We’ll try to think of more.
Post an updated list anyway.
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Germany National Advantages
1. Panzer Grenadiers
During World War II, the Germans had troops that were designed for fighting alongside tanks. These were fully motorized units, so that they could at all times keep up with the tanks. Each of your tanks gives one matching infantry one additional movement allowance. The tank and the infantry unit must leave from the same territory.2. Atlantic Wall
The Germans fortified the European beaches with massive defensive concrete blockhouses that formed part of the German defensive "Atlantic Wallâ€. During any amphibious assault against Axis controlled Western Europe (except for African territories), all your infantry defend on a 3 during the first cycle of combat.3. Fortress Europe
By protecting the Third Reich on all sides, Germany built fortified defensive lines and established strongpoint on key terrain in Europe. Your artillery in German territories defends on a 3.4. German 88’s
During the first cycle of combat only, on Attack and Defence, your artillery fire in the Conduct Opening Fire phase (instead of the Attacking Units fire and Defending Units fire phases respectively). Casualties are removed immediately. When declared, place 2 free artillery in any Gray territory you control, during the Mobilize Units phase of this turn only.5. Panzer blitz
If your attacking forces destroy all defending units in a territory in one cycle of combat, any of your surviving armor may move 1 territory during non-combat movement.6. Afrika Corps
Once per game place 2 infantry, 1 artillery, and 2 Armor for free in Libya if you control it, during your Mobilize Units phase.7. Volkstrum infantry
Once per game, the German player may purchase Infantry for 2 IPC each. This cannot be performed unless a territory in Europe, originally controlled by Germany at the start of the game, is controlled by any Allied player.8. SS Panzer.
These may be built, 1 per turn. A maximum of 4 can be on the map at any time. They are built as and have the same attributes as Heavy Tanks without requiring the Heavy Tank technology. In combat they may ignore the 1st hit assigned to them as they take two hits to destroy and all their attacks are rolled pre-emptively.9. Albert Speer & German Industrial rationalisation
On turn 5 the territory of Germany is worth double value (but the original value for any strategic attacks & original value for occupation).10. Defend the homeland
The German player may call up to six infantry when any original German territory (grey) is under attack. (money for these units paid for on the following turn even if your getting them this turn). -
4. German 88’s
Ah yes. The staple food of any Germany NA list.7. Volkstrum infantry
For argument sake, we shall specify which territories.9. Albert Speer & German Industrial rationalisation
Oh I see so the idea is that the industrial changes are bound to happen around 1945 regardless of whether Germany was losing WWII.10. Defend the homeland
Once per game or once per turn? Maybe should only apply for Germany, Southern Europe and Western Europe. -
Volkstrum infantry
Once per game, the German player may purchase Infantry for 2 IPC each. This cannot be performed unless a territory in Europe, originally controlled by Germany at the start of the game, is controlled by any Allied player.Yes correct to demonstrate that german has finally fully mobilized to wartime economy
10. Defend the homeland
The German player may call up to six infantry in the territory of Germany if the allies attack any territoy adjacent to Germany. (money for these units paid for on the following turn even if your getting them this turn). -
7. Volkstrum infantry
Oh I meant like which territories are considered Europe.
Is West Russia considered Europe?10. Defend the homeland
So what if the attack is right on the “Germany” territory?
And so this is every turn? -
7. Volkstrum infantry
Oh I meant like which territories are considered Europe.
Is West Russia considered Europe?I think yes! Make it: If one original controlled German territory (except Africa) is controlled by an Allied power, then this NA may be used. The Volkstrum army may however only be raised in the homeland territory of Germany itself. (Would be weird to see Volkstrum be raised in France or Norway…)
10. Defend the homeland
So what if the attack is right on the “Germany” territory?
And so this is every turn?First of all, please exclude the African territories. Because nothing will frighthing the homeland, if for example Libya falls into Allied hands. I would say only on Western, Eastern Europe and Germany, and Southern Europe and the Balkans (if Italy is not a player) These territories all directly border Germany itself.
About your question, isn’t it meant with this NA that you can place 6 INF there IMMEDIATELY if any of those territories are under attack, even though you have to pay for them the next turn, they get to fight right away?? Then I see no problem in an attack on Germany itself.
Is it meant that you get the 6 INF on your own turn, then I think this NA can only still be activated if the Germany territory did not fall into Allied hands, otherwise there would be no way that Germany could raise them, without controll of the Homeland…
How should this NA be read?
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7. Volkstrum infantry
Oh I meant like which territories are considered Europe.
Is West Russia considered Europe?======= These can be built once the allies attack any territory thats adjacent to Germany.
10. Defend the homeland
So what if the attack is right on the “Germany” territory?
And so this is every turn?Its once per game
it is possible if they attack germany itself. -
Germany National Advantages (Revised list)
1. Panzer Grenadiers
During World War II, the Germans had troops that were designed for fighting alongside tanks. These were fully motorized units, so that they could at all times keep up with the tanks. Each of your tanks gives one matching infantry one additional movement allowance. The tank and the infantry unit must leave from the same territory.2. Atlantic Wall
The Germans fortified the European beaches with massive defensive concrete blockhouses that formed part of the German defensive "Atlantic Wallâ€. During any amphibious assault against Axis controlled Western Europe (except for African territories), all your infantry defend on a 3 during the first cycle of combat.3. Fortress Europe
By protecting the Third Reich on all sides, Germany built fortified defensive lines and established strongpoint on key terrain in Europe. Your artillery in German territories defends on a 3.4. German 88’s
During the first cycle of combat only, on Attack and Defence, your artillery fire in the Conduct Opening Fire phase (instead of the Attacking Units fire and Defending Units fire phases respectively). Casualties are removed immediately. When declared, place 2 free artillery in any Gray territory you control, during the Mobilize Units phase of this turn only.5. Panzer blitz
If your attacking forces destroy all defending units in a territory in one cycle of combat, any of your surviving armor may move 1 territory during non-combat movement.6. Afrika Corps
Once per game place 2 infantry, 1 artillery, and 2 Armor for free in Libya if the Axis control it, during your Mobilize Units phase.7. Volkstrum infantry
Once per game, the German player may purchase Infantry for 2 IPC each. This cannot be performed unless a territory adjacent to Germany, is controlled by any Allied player.8. SS Panzer.
These may be built, 1 per turn. A maximum of 4 can be on the map at any time. They are built as and have the same attributes as Heavy Tanks without requiring the Heavy Tank technology. In combat they may ignore the 1st hit assigned to them as they take two hits to destroy and all their attacks are rolled pre-emptively.9. Albert Speer & German Industrial rationalisation
On turn 5 the territory of Germany is worth 10 additional IPC per turn. (but the original value for any strategic attacks & original value under Allied occupation).10. Defend the homeland
Once per game the German player may call up to six infantry when the territory of Germany itself is under attack. (money for these units paid for on the following turn even if your getting them this turn). -
@Imperious:
6. Afrika Corps
Once per game place 2 infantry, 1 artillery, and 2 Armor for free in Libya if you control it, during your Mobilize Units phase.I think it should be like this; Once per game place 2 infantry, 1 artillery, and 2 Armor for free in Libya if you or your Italian Allie control it, during your Mobilize Units phase.
In real, Rommel was sent to Italian grounds…
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