Pearl or no Pearl???

Your ships in SZ60 are in deep kimchee, with the TRNs the first casualties of course, in an American attack on SZ60.

Really? The Americans can attack with 2 fighters, 1 sub, and 1 carrier, versus 4 trans, 1 bb, 1 car, 2 fighters, 1 sub, and 1 dest. Are you sure the trans are going down as first casualties? The Americans on average die instantly on the first round while inflicting 1-2 hits, you think I will lose transports to that?

Russia can even counter in Bury with 4 INF, a FIG, and maybe even some ARM.

Really? Who sends 4 infantry to yakut with arm on R1? If you do that then Sinkiang isn’t going to be countered.

You’ll lose FIC, China and Bury all in T2 unless the Allies are just ignoring Japan

Really? I don’t know many people who defend India. If you leave 3 inf there then the strategy changes, but if you leave 1 inf there then I’ll take it, or if 0 inf, then there is no threat to Indochina. If Bury is countered, that is the end of the Russian defense, period. J2 is a hard crash into Bury with a free stretch of land to Moscow, and Russia has little to spare after already making that big of a stand.

You may be able to TAKE China with 1 INF in that strat… but having 1 INF in China, FIC empty, and 1 ARM in Bury is NOT a good way to start as Japan.  You’ll lose FIC, China and Bury all in T2 unless the Allies are just ignoring Japan (and you are the only perosn I know who totally ignores Japan… at least you USEd to until I taught you that it was not a good idea… AFTER you taught me how to play

Burning out your defense stack with Russia so fast isn’t a a great idea either. That 6 inf compromises just about all the buffer that you can afford before you have to actually spend units in that direction.

I’m still pretty stuck on ignoring Japan until novosibirsk. I have to admit I’m more tempted to stack Bury than I was previously because I think it intimidates some people more than it should.

You may be able to TAKE China with 1 INF in that strat

Really? It’s more likely to take China with more than 1 inf than it is to take it with just 1 inf.

Sorry switch, I was making some assumptions about the Allied forces there but I’m still gonna have to side with Tri on this one.

I assumed no American interference because I would  do exactly what Tri described. If I’m not attacking Hawaii SZ (I have a thing about calling it Pearl Harbor) the only naval units I don’t have in SZ 60 will be the 2nd carrier group (East Indies CV/BB) and a U.S. attack there would be just like attacking Hawaii except Hawaii comes to me. I would never lose transports either, thats what the sub and DD are for.

I also assumed that the British were moving to Africa and that at least 4 Russian infantry were going toward Germany. With the kind of Russian hardware you’re talking about ( air support, armor), as Japan, I’m thinking KJF. A British mobilization in India and an IC build there would be the final indicator for that. No IC and I’m not worried about massive Russian movements in east Asia because that front structure is going to collapse quickly even if I have to split my builds to counter a U.S. fleet build. With two BB’s hugging the coast any incursions into Japanese held territory is risky at best.

Which brings me to the exact reason why, if I get at least a 2 bid, 2 bucks, not 1, go to Japan. If I see heavy Russian and/or British resistance, I won’t build the 1st turn IC. I’ll build either 4 trannys if I don’t see an Indian IC(any empty trannys immidiately go to the islands, if possible) or 3 trannys and a sub if an Indian IC is built and I can expect a fleet competition with the U.S.

Just rmember, if Japan tries too much too fast, they WILL get spanked.

And with only 1 TRN on J1, attempting to kill 9 enemy INF (revised count to now include India based on Tri’s last post) and a FIG is going to result in Japan being VERY thin in Asia, and with a depleted AF.

As for losign those Russian forces early…

If Russia counters Bury on R2, and if Japan has no TRNs on J2, then Japan can;t get to Yakut until J4.  And with only 2 more INF, it will be at least J5 before they can be in Evenk or Novo.  And taht will not be in force.

It cost Russia just their eastern forces plus 1 FIG for 1 round, and 2 more INF to accomplish that.  And Japan had to fight the whole way to Russia.  And now that they are there, they are thin on the front line… VERY thin if trying to advance on other fronts also, and a single counter-strike can shatter their advance.

Really? Who sends 4 infantry to yakut with arm on R1? If you do that then Sinkiang isn’t going to be countered.

i would.  I usually send 6 Inf to Buryatia on R1, puts 2 Arm In Yakut, moves 2 inf from Novo to Sinkiang.

Uk, usually attacks FIC with 3 Inf, 1 Fig, the goal is to Kill the 2 Inf, and that usually succedes.

if succesfull UK builds an IC on UK 1 in India(southafrica if failed)

And US follows Up with an IC in Sinkiang.

Still plenty of cash to put against Germany……

Wow, glad my Buryatia comment sparked some debate. I’ve only done the move once.

Russia and Britain dictate whether Japan can even think about Buryatia or not. As I said, it requires a conservative first turn from the Allies in the Pacific.

If Russia is in position to counter Buryatia I say bring it on. The 3 transport build means more dead Russians if Buryatia is countered- according to some of these posts a tank or two. Thanks for voluntarily depleting your offensive forces, Mutha Russia. As Japan I’d exchange troops with Russia all day long. As said above Russian troops defending the north means less troops in the Sinkiang/ Novo region.

And there’s no way around this fact- 6 dead Russians may not equal the Sub/ Carrier/ Fighter Pearl strike in IPC value, but they’re 6 dead Russians. The Axis goal is to get to Russia, isn’t it?

And in only two battles the force breakdown can look like this-

Vs. Buryatia- 3 Inf/ Arm/ 4 Ftrs/ Bmr/ BB shot vs 6 Inf. That looks like winning with an armor to me.

Vs. China- 4 Inf/ 2 Ftrs vs 2 Inf/ Ftr. Looks like a win with 1-2 Inf left to me.

SZ 60= BB, Carrier/ 2 Ftrs, Destroyer, 4 Transports. British Kwangtung destroyer has been taken out by BB + Carrier. Set up to hit F Indo in a reprisal, Buryatia in a reprisal, or reinforce either/or. Second turn IC and you’re rolling into Asia nearly unchecked. And if Russia is seriously (not just token defense) impeding your progress, then they’re certainly not stacking in enough force in W Russia to prevent German gains.

All that having been said, I don’t do this move. Being strong up the gut in China, and killing the Pearl fleet at little or no loss, is extremely solid play. But Switch, I don’t think a Buryatia strike should be summarily dismissed as a bad move. It can have merit in the right situation.

You are forgeting that your 2 Inf from FIC is usually dead (in 60% of the cases so is the Fig in FIC, and UK lands an additional Fig in China)

And if you don´t do pearl you will have hell to pay, and if you don´t kill Buryatia, Russia will attack Manchuria with 6 inf, 2 Arm on R2 (then moving into China and to Sinkiang to Defend)

I usually land the Indian UK fighter in Bury with those 6 Russian Inf.  It can still be taken on J1, but it makes the attack more costly, often costing Japan a Fighter.

If Russia counters Bury on R2, and if Japan has no TRNs on J2,

Why do you keep saying this Switch? What secret attack do the Americans have that can break any transports on US1? SZ60 is guarded by 4 tran, 1 car + 2 figs, 1 bb, 1 dest, and 1 sub (dicepoints = 24, 4 dead units on average). The best the Americans can bring is 2 fig, 1 car, and 1 sub (9 dice points, 1.5 dead units on average). Do you think you will get any tran at all?

The Russian defense is broken completely if Bury is countered. The Russians have burned 10 inf and 1 tank in the East by round 2.

You’re right that Japan can go too fast, and I don’t advocate the counter as a magical bullet that should be done in every game, but I think it’s a pretty fair counter if India is abandoned and the Bury stack (just 6 inf, no UK fighter) is all you’re seeing so far from the Allies. I’d rather spank those inf before they get backup from other troops.

My conservative play is pretty much what 88 millimeter is saying, take China strong, do Pearl light, and land troops in manchuria with fighters so the Russians don’t get extra money (unless they also have a couple tanks in Yakut, then. If the UK stayed in India, then I might have to leave FIndo troops there so they don’t expand either, otherwise India is taken. Kwang fleet destroyed by East Indies fleet, etc. Deploy the tran in SZ61 with 1 bb as backup. Then your bases are covered and you’re ready to strike at weakpoints.

You are forgeting that your 2 Inf from FIC is usually dead (in 60% of the cases so is the Fig in FIC, and UK lands an additional Fig in China)

And if you don´t do pearl you will have hell to pay, and if you don´t kill Buryatia, Russia will attack Manchuria with 6 inf, 2 Arm on R2 (then moving into China and to Sinkiang to Defend)

Good point Nix, but in most games I play the Allied player either retakes Egypt, is aggressive in the Pacific islands, or pulls troops out of India to use another day. I’ve never had that strat used against me (Brits vs. F Indo). If the garrison at F Indo was dead they would be very _un_usually dead.

And when I’ve seen the Hawaiin fleet left standing, I’ve never seen hell. It does mean that the U.S doesn’t have to buy a carrier. It’s a help to the U.S. but certainly not a game breaker. It seems you believe in going after Japan; most people KGF. That’s what I’m most experienced in facing.

I’ll re-emphasize, and I’ll put it in bold to make it clear, Russian and British choices dictate whether Japan can even think about Buryatia or not. It is completely contingent on the game as it stands at that point. I would hardly advocate assaulting Buryatia under good circumstances - if Britain comes after F Indo, then I obviously wouldn’t do it. So, I wasn’t forgetting anything- I just didn’t spell out every scenario that could happen.

Im just saying that if you are playing me, the forces in FIC would be hit.

It’s definitely a good way to make Japan sweat, no doubt about that. Is that standard for you or do you do it based on what Germany does?

Im just saying that if you are playing me, the forces in FIC would be hit.

I’ve thought of doing this too, but that means Germany gets some juicy IPCs out of Africa.  :-(

The thought of attacking FIC had crossed my mind as well. But I determined it was mostly situational. If Gemany gets thumped in Egypt or I’m bringing the Russian hammer to Japan it’s worth a shot, but otherwise it’s just sacrificing a lot of irreplaceable units early for an average payout. Japan can live with only 5 fighters.

Whether or not you do Pearl depends on what USSR and UK did.

If USSR and UK are attempting to hold the Asian coast (buildup in India and Burytia), Japan should probably use its air to blow up Burytia and land in position to hit India or a US fleet advance on Japan 2.

If the UK unified its fleet, that’s another thing to consider.

If there is an industrial complex in India and/or Ssinkiang, that’s something yet again.

etc. etc.

Plus, remember you can do Pearl with just fighters, bomber, and naval fodder, as well as the usual kitchen sink attack.

In the fleet mass you mention Tri, there is no Japan IC on J1.  Taht in itself is a limit to Japan in Asia.

Now… if Bury does not fall, US adds a bomber to the attack.  If China holds (quite possible with the AF diversion to Bury and with the UK FIG flown in for defense), now you have 3 FIG, 1 BOM, 1 AC, 1 SUB.

The worse situation for Japan though is not a US 1 counter, it is US2.

As for Egypt, Germany gains some ground briefly, but with a massed Allied landing in north Africa such as is being done to me in my current game, Germany’s gains will be minor and short lived; in addition to Germany not being able to make massive progress against Russia even with Russian forces diverted to Asia due to the growing threat to Southern.

In the fleet mass you mention Tri, there is no Japan IC on J1.  Taht in itself is a limit to Japan in Asia.

You shouldn’t be building ICs on J1 if you suspect that much initial pressure against Japan. You still have plenty of troops to offload if you build 3 tran 2 inf on J1

Now… if Bury does not fall, US adds a bomber to the attack.  If China holds (quite possible with the AF diversion to Bury and with the UK FIG flown in for defense), now you have 3 FIG, 1 BOM, 1 AC, 1 SUB.

If the UK fig is flown in for defense, then Bury is skipped. If the UK fig is not flown in, this situation only occurs 20% of the time. Even when this situation occurs, that means I might have to lose a carrier, destroyer, and sub, and perhaps 1 tran, while the US airforce is reduced to 1 fighter in Eastern US. I could even be willing to lose 1 fighter to take Buryatia, which extends the chances of taking Buryatia up to 92%.

The worse situation for Japan though is not a US 1 counter, it is US2.Â

As for Egypt, Germany gains some ground briefly, but with a massed Allied landing in north Africa such as is being done to me in my current game, Germany’s gains will be minor and short lived; in addition to Germany not being able to make massive progress against Russia even with Russian forces diverted to Asia due to the growing threat to Southern.

These are mutually exclusive events. The US cannot buy enough on US2 both provide meaningful pressure on Japan and get into Africa with massive forces.

What is being done to you is interesting, but has its own set of limitations. It requires the UK fleet to buy its own defense as it operates in the north, and the US can never help a 1-2 punch into the capital itself via navy. That first part, requiring the UK to buy its own defense, is impractical when facing a med/baltic naval link, which I think is the one main reason why I think it won’t work.

If the UK fig is flown in for defense, then Bury is skipped.

Thanks, Tri- this is the crux of what I was trying to say. I even put it in bold in my last post to make it clear :-D

But I’ll do it again because it’s fun.

Russian and British choices dictate whether Japan can even think about Buryatia or not.

Buryatia is only possible if the right conditions exist. An extra British fighter in China means the right conditions do not exist. And if you do choose to do it, you build accordingly (3 transports), which deals with the U.S. threat.

To every question of “well what if _______ and what if________”,  I answer- don’t attack Buryatia.