Germany Strategy concept…

Posted for review and comment:

Assumption is that Russia moved into West Russia at a minimum, possibly Belorussia as well creating a strong stack in Central Europe to threaten multiple territories and block any initial German advance.

G1 Build:
1 AC, 8 INF.

Combat Moves:
Abandon Norway.  Germany cannot hold it against even a modest Allied player and it can be easily flanked with transports into Karelia and Archangel, so no reason to waste effort there.  Attack Karelia using Norway land forces, and additional FIGS as needed.

Kill UK Destroyer:
Using Ukraine and Balkan FIGS, take out the UK destroyer off Egypt.

Kill UK BB at Gibraltar:
Use North Atlantic sub, Southern BB and tranny, and 1 FIG (probably Western).  Land INF in Gibraltar to prevent use as a UK LZ.

SBR of UK:
You do UK rather than USSR for 2 reasons.  First, the only place Russia can be bombed in G1 is Caucuses, and you do a maximum 4 IPC’s damage while in UK you can do up to 6 IPC’s.  Also, your opening moves are designed to challenge in the Atlantic as long as possible, thus the object is to slow UK’s build down as much as possible.

Non-Combat moves:
Create 2 hard-points against Russia in Eastern and Ukraine.  Use maximum available INF to create these hard points.  Avoid reinforcing with ARM except as needed in Ukraine due to distance from Germany, and keep FIGS from landing in either zone as much as possible.  Stage ARM in Balkans to the greatest extent possible, others in Germany.  Swap Western ARM for German INF.  Land as many figs as possible in Western (save 2 that will be landing on the new AC to be placed in the Baltic).

Placement:
AC in Baltic with 2 existing figs.
INF placed 6 in Germany 2 in Southern.

Rationale for these moves:
Negatives:
It leaves Germany down an average of 2 IPC’s, 5 after Norway falls, so initially does not appear to be a good move.  Also leaves the Suez open to UK incursion and takes no IPC’s from UK other than SBR damage.
Positives:
First and foremost, you now have the ability to challenge the Atlantic for a few rounds.  Assuming the loss of the sub in Gibraltar, you have both German fleets able to converge in a position off France to defens almost all of Germany’s territory in G2.  The fleet is subject to attack by UK figs, but with a loaded AC AND with a BB in the fleet, losses will be minimal IF ANY until UK spends at least a round building air force.
Second, it nullifies that Russian stack in West Russia.  By creating twin hard points, each able to attack/retake the other if it should fall, then Russia is just sitting there with massed forces that can’t do anything.  Russia builds it’s 9 INF a round, but takes nothing else from Germany, and can’t afford to divert forces elsewhere.  The minute he does, Germany pounces.
Third, it is a G1 build that equals Russia for land forces at 8 INF while also blocking any UK support to Russia (except perhaps FIGS if UK wants to let that German fleet live).
Fourth it also stalls the US from landings in Africa on US1 (unless they want to sacrifice the tranny) and forces the US to either move or build Capital ships in the Atlantic instead of just building trannies.

With this as an opening move, Germany follows up with another INF build in G2, this time INFwith 1 fig.  Each round of INF builds is moved toward Russia on the following round.  Germany feeds forces into Karelia, and builds up in Eastern and Ukraine.  On G3, Germany should have enough forces to do the first “push” against Russian positions.  This will probably be in Belorussia (but if Caucuses is weak, strike there).

Once you secure Belorussia, you shift your hard-points to Karelia/Bel/Ukraine and defend/build up as before with INF in those front line territories and your ARM backing them up from 1 territory behind.

On the Naval front, UK and US should be getting ready to make their move against you.  Remember that you cannot replace naval units, but you can fly more figs to the carrier.  Wound your BB, then take tranny losses, then if the battle is nearly won by Germany lose FIGs, otherwise lose subs.  The idea being that you maintain your consolidated German fleet in or near SZ7 as long as possible.  Sacrificing 2 German FIGs in order to keep the US and Uk from landing in Europe another round is worth the trade, especially if you are continuing to build 1 FIG a turn to help replace losses.  Basically, FEED THE FLEET your air force to keep it alive.  And of course, when either UK or US move to striking range, HIT THEM HARD!  Use land based aircraft in support, even if you have to delay a Russian strike to do so.  Take out the Allied navy as hard as possible, in one strike if you can.  That keeps your fleet alive to attack the NEXT allied fleet.

Sometime around G4 (G5 if you are lucky) the German fleet is gone.  Preserve any remaining aircraft in Western for defense and as a threat to those trannies.  If a tranny gets isolated or left unprotected, KILL it.  Don;t waste your AF against BB’s, subs and destroyers.  Once your fleet is gone, those ships can;t really hurt you (1 BB shot a round, deal with it).  The trannies though, THAT is your risk, so you strike them as you can.

You should now have pushed Russia to where there is a weak spot in their Archangel/West Russia/Caucuses front.  Wherever that weak spot is, EXPLOIT it.  Move in hard, fast, and with everything you can muster.  Take it and HOLD it.  This is your base for your strikes on Russia itself.  Take ONE of them with your massed forces.  Be sure to leave screening INF in any territory adjacent to a Russian force stack.  Don;t let Russia blitz.  And be sure to keep your supply line secure to keep flowing forces forward.  West Russia is the easiest forward position to defend.  Caucuses has the advantage of the IC.  Archangel blocks UK land forces from reaching Russia, but leaves you vulnerable to amphibious.  Weigh your options and MOVE.

Now you are back to waiting and building.  Japan needs to be bringing pressure to bear by this time, most likely through either the central or northern Asia channel.  Once Japan has forces in Novo in force, prepare for the 1-2-3 strike.  Germany should lead off with a heavy hit.  Germany is best able to gather forces for a second strike, Japan is much slower to get forces to the Russian front.  Germany hits Russia and weakens it dramatically.  Japan further pounds the snot out of Russia.  Russia gets a small build, then Germnay hammers again.

If you have been feeding INF to the front, with some ART mixed in, and have been preserving your ARM, you should be able to drop Russia with that strike around G6-7.

If you can;t sack Russia by then, you are in deep doo.  Those US and UK ships are going to be hitting you with too many trannied forces for you to stay at Russia, time to run back toward Germany to keep the allied landings at bay and hope like hell Japan pulls off a miracle.

Well wes, to answer your questions…

1.  You may need some of those northern figs for Karelia.  I am not sure if EVERYONE leaves it wide open on R1 like you do :-P
2.  You kill the Egypt Destroyer to make sure it is not a problem for you.  Let it live and it can either work across the med and link up to strike with the UK against the consolidated German Navy, or provide screening protection for US and/or UK trannies.  The other thing, it can slip through the Suez (if it remains open) and link up with the other UK navy to harass Japan’s expansion.  Or it is an additional unit with UK’s India fleet coming into the med, leaving Germany an ongoing headache in the Med that is too tough of a fleet to kill without a total German AF sacrifice.

Just like with the Gibraltar BB, kill it while it is alone instead of letting it become a 50/50 hit roll each round with cannon fodder to keep it alive.  With 2 Figs, the odds are Germany will kill it on strike 1, and only 50/50 chance of Germany losing 1 fig.

3.  Initially, Karelia is not a hard point.  Eastern and Ukraine are your initial hard points.  On G2 you start flowing forces into Karelia to make it your 3rd hard point, then drive into Belorussia around G3-4 to make THAT a replacement hard point for Eastern which then becomes a staging area to support the INF hard points.

4.  If you take out the Detroyer with Figs, you cannot also use them in Egypt.  That leaves you with 1 4, 1 3 and 1 1 against 1 2, 1 3 and 1 4.  The odds are then strongly in favor of UK retaining possession and Germany is out of forces in Africa, and probably down a bomber.  Instead, with the German fleet screening the Atlantic in the early rounds, evacuate Algeria to Libya and pool forces for a G2 strike on Egypt is UK does not reinforce (now with your German figs available for this round).  And if UK does reinforce Egypt, they are much weaker against Japan.  Win/Win for the Axis.

5.  A consolidated German fleet should be 3 subs, 2 trannies, 1 BB, 1 Destroyer, 1 AC and 2 FIGS.  That means in UK1 and UK 2, UK has to give SOME thought to homeland defense.  If Germany uses total AF, plus the support shot, plus 4 ground units, UK MAY fall to an amphib assault unless UK builds defensive units; at least air power.  Also, US then has to build/move some capital ships in the early rounds also to take out that German fleet.  Anything less than near total destruction of the fleet in ONE strike by the Allies (or a 1-2 punch with UK leading off and US following up).  If Germany gets a breather after 1 strike, the BB is repaired and new figs fly out to reinforce the fleet.  Germany sacrifices FIGS before losing the BB and the Carrier.  If those 2 ships survive, then the next attack will be on a re-fortified German fleet with 3 4’s and a 3 at a minimum, with a free hit against the BB to start.  YOU HAVE TO SCORE 10 HITS against the German navy before you can sink either the AC or the BB.  Meanwhile, Germany is initially countering your attack with 3 sneaks of 2 (because the UK Destroyer was sank off Egypt, unless they spent 12 IPC’s for a new one…), 2 1’s, 2 3’s, and 4 4’s.  Total defense strength of that fleet is 26, an average of 4.33 kills by the Germans, 1 of which does not even get to fire its first shot.  The same 4.33 hits against the German fleet leaves them STILL having a defense roll of 22, 4 more Allied attacker dead, and you still have not even gotten through my subs to my heavy hitters.

And again, so long as the Graf Zeppelin lives, Germany still has a fleet of 3 units with a defense roll of 2 4’s and a 3, average 2 hits on defense.

If US and UK coordinate well, and plan well, the German fleet CAN be sunk by the end of US3.  That leaves Allied turn 4 for some initial landings, and turn 5 before it gets serious.  It MIGHT be slower than that, if the US and UK do not coordinate perfectly, if Germany rolls a slight bit above average, or if either nation has to replace some screening ships for those trannies to pretect them from the German AF.

Not a perfect answer.  You can’t hold the Atlantic as Germany against a combined 72 IPC’s.  But for 4 rounds…  Breathing room and the ability to pour forces toward Russia…

@trihero:

I’m still confused how you make Ukraine a hard point early on. I’d destroy it as Russia…

We’ll use your end of R1 position from our game as a reference:
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=5707.0
Russia’s force distribution after R1 is the 5th post down.

Germany buys 1 AC, 8 INF.

Combat is taking Karelia, sinking the med destroyer and BB, SBR of UK.  I MAY even run a tank to Archangel just to be annoying.

Non-Combat:
2 INF from Balkans to Ukraine
2 INF from Eastern to Ukraine
3 INF existing in Ukraine

3 INF from Germany to Eastern
2 INF from Western to Eastern (via tranny)

2 INF from Southern to Balkans
1 ART from Southern to Balkans

ALL ARM consolidates in Eastern
2 ARM from Germany
2 ARM from Western
1 ARM from Southern
1 Existing in Eastern
1 ARM from Ukraine
1 ARM from Balkans

1 INF and 1 ART from Algeria to Libya

2 FIGS (from Balkans and Ukraine) land in Balkans
Norway and Eastern FIGS land on new AC
Western and German Figs in Western
Bomber lands in Germany
Mobilize 8 INF in Germany

That gives me a force distribution of:
Ukraine:  7 INF
Eastern:  5 INF, 8 ARM
Western:  2 FIGS
Germany:  8 INF, 1 BOM
Karelia:  3 INF
Balkans:  2 INF, 1 ART, 2 FIG.

That makes your attack in R2 on Ukraine being a maximum of:
14 INF, 2 ART, 4 ARM, 2 FIG.

That EMPTIES West Russia and Caucuses.

Your initial attack kills 6.33 units.
Defense roll is 2.33 units.
You TAKE Ukraine with your MAXIMUM available force and hold it with 12 INF, 2 ART, and 4 ARM.

Let’s finish off Russia with a hypotentical non-combat and build.
Russia sends 1 INF from Moscow to Archangel to prevent a walk-through.
Now Russia has to decide where to send remaining 3 infantry, 3 artillery, because that is ALL they have left prior to their build placement with everything in Ukraine for maximum offense/protection.
Assume they play it safe, 1 INF to West Russia to prevent a walk-through.
Place a build of 8 INF and 1 ART: 3 INF and 1 ART in Caucuses, 4 INF in Russia (staying Offensive)

Germany builds 5 ARM, 1 INF (not a wise move, but go with it).

Germany counters in Ukraine:
7 INF, 1 ART, 8 ARM, 4 FIGS (2 from AC, 2 from Balkans), 1 BOM
Initial Attack kills 8.33
Initial Defense kills 6.67
We’ll round off  8 dead Russian INF, 7 dead German INF.

Round 2:
Germany kills 7
Russia kills 4

The last 5 Russia INF die as do the 2 ART.
Germany loses their ART and 3 tanks.

Round 3:
Germany kills 5.16
Russia kills 2

That is overkill for Germany, losing 2 more tanks in the process.

Germany occupies Ukraine with 3 ARM.  FIGS fly to AC and to Western, Bomber back to Germany.

Also, 2 Western FIGS and 2 INF from Karelia invade either Belorussia or West Russia (we’ll say Belorussia), taking it with 1 INF.  Figs land in Eastern or Karelia.

Germany non-combats 8 INF to Eastern.

So let’s look at the board now:

Germany forces:
1 INF in Karelia
1 INF in Belorussia
8 INF in Eastern
5 ARM, 1 INF in Germany
3 ARM in Ukraine
Fleet fully loaded in SZ7 to screen from landings
2 FIGS in Western, just in case.
2 FIGS in Eastern

Russia Forces:
3 INF and 1 ART in Caucuses
6 INF, 3 ART, 2 FIG in Russia
1 INF in Archangel
1 INF in West Russia.

Is this a practical, real world example?  No.  It is an extreme, designed to show that while Germany can;t PREVENT Russia from taking their Ukraine hard-point in R2, that doing so would cripple Russia.

The idea behind the 2 initial hard-points:  Eastern and Ukraine, is to make either too darn expensive for Russia to try for, forcing them to work on minor territories like Bel and Karelia.

Germany maintains a build rate of 38, Russia is building at 25 ish (depending on Japan)

With the German FIGS available to provide a MASSIVE offensive punch, then go back to their defensive rolls, with Germany’s starting 8 ARM to provide staying power on a forward push, and with first 8, then 10-12 INF moving toward Russia each round… well, it is a winning strategy so long as the German fleet holds out.

And since we have established that it will still exist on G3, that means Germany is hitting Bel with 8 INF, 6 figs, perhaps a bomber, and 8 ARM in G3.  Or sending the same forces to re-take Ukraine after destroying the Russian stack there, or pushing through Karelia into Archangel to threaten Russia directly.

Germany is outbuilding Russia by 65% in Turn 2.  Russia can;t hold against that without help… Help that won’t arrive until Turn 4…

And yes Wes, that is a direct challenge to ya for Game 3 :-)

Who said I was using THAT strategy!  That is simply ONE method of playing Germany… mostly based on your own strategies posted elsewhere on this board, with a little personalization :-P

I may do something very different… like send the German tranny to Brazil for 3 IPC’s, to weaken US, and to allow Germany to build an IC there…

Wes, just remember 1 thing…

I do rather well at fluid strategy.  You are very good at doing what works for YOU.

If I can knock you out of your usual strategies, and do it early enough, I have the edge :-)

@trihero:

Don’t get me wrong, I’ll be pretty glad if you do beat me. I’d love to see the Axis win no-bid, barring overly lucky dice  :wink:

I’m going to do my best to make that happen.

Who knows, you may go KJF on me and blow away everything I am posting here (making it a totally differnt game from the 2 we fought already…

Interesting thoughts…

Some feedback…

The only way that the Allies can prevent a link-up on G2 is to suicide the initial UK navy, plus some UK1 build navy, all of it moved to/placed in SZ6.  Without that block, the Baltic fleet sails to SZ7 unopposed.  Even if UK (or USSR) places 1 ship there to “block”, Germany takes it out with AF, and moves the Baltic fleet to SZ7 in non-combat move.  By the time UK or US is in a position to actually attack the German fleet with Allied navy, the link-up has already occurred.

You could, theoretically, have Russia suicide their AF against the Baltic fleet to weaken it, then  use the UK navy to block, forcing Germany to use up some of THEIR AF.  You could also suicide the UK AF into the Baltic fleet (though in this case, the AC and 2 FIGS are present, making losses minimal, basically 1 round of hits before the RAF is gone).  This of course assumes that Germany did NOT Sea Lion in G2, in which case there is a 62% chance (including tech roll) of UK not building a darn thing, EVER.  But, if Germany does not Sea Lion, at least SOME of that Baltic fleet is going to end up in SZ7 with the sub, BB and tranny.  Not the strongest fleet, but with UK lacking a bomber and 2 figs, and with Russia being down a pair of figs also, and with UK also possibly being down their initial UK fleet plus some build material… well now that fleet isn;t looking too bad.  UK is not going to be attacking it again until UK3, and the US needs to get there first…

As for the UK sailing their fleet into the Med…
Balkan and Ukraine figs solve the problem of taking Egypt without the German med navy, sealing the canal to UK on UK1.

And as for the South African IC…
If UK did all it could to stop the fleet link-up, as you advocate, then UK can ill afford to spend half of their money on an IC in South Africa.  They are lacking an AF and a Navy, with Germany having a loaded carrier, a BB, and a tranny within striking distance of UK, plus the remainder of their massed AF (probably another 2 figs and a bomber, allowing for Egypt moves) within range of London.  That is a first round attack roll of 24 (4 kills) against a UK that no longer has any figs for defense and spent half their money in South Africa, and the rest blocking the German Baltic fleet.

Your Russian strategy deserves a LOT of thought though.  Taking out the cannon fodder from any German attack is a hell of a viable concept.  It slows Germany more than you posted.  Germany will not have any G1 purchases of INF available before G3 for Ukraine or Bel.  It will be G4 before the surviving G1 purchased INF can reach Caucuses/West Russia.  And, with the Baltic AC build, THAT is only 8 INF in combat range on G4, less losses from strafing or from re-taking Ukraine or Belorussia.

Germany CAN make some initial advances due to less-than-maximum stacking and spreading their forces, but they still maintain the ability to counter any German attack in R2, and wiping out the lion;s share of any German gain, as well as the potential for gains in the rounds to come, for quite some time.  It does create a bit more of a dead zone in mid Europe than would otherwise have occurred with a total R1 INF build, but the trade off appears viable on first review.

DEFINITELY deserves further review.

If Russia has stacked hard on all sides of Ukraine…

Stack Eastern, then when Russia moves on Ukraine, counter HARD from Eastern, using Med Fleet for additional INF and a support shot as well as available AF.  Kill hard and fast, to keep as many of your troops alive as possible.

Instant hard point in Ukraine AFTER killing a lot of Russians.  AND you can still stack Eastern with your previous round German build just by moving it to Eastern…

Yes, but even with the sub in SZ6, you force it to submerge with the FIG, and then sail through free and clear in non-combat phase.

So the sub alone is NOT adequate protection against a G2 fleet link-up (if Germany decides to go that route)

If you want to play conservative as Germany… just turtle up from the get-go and wait for Japan… IF they can get to Moscow in time with Russia having lots of money and German offesnive against them…

You have to take risks.

The object is to make your moves smartly… and when in doubt, go HEAVY, so that you win easilly with few troops lost and your opponent takes maximum losses on the counter.