Religion needs to go away

Live and let live is definitely my motto.  Actually, that falls back on the Golden Rule (or am I wrong?).
However, I have a problem when people tell me I’m going to Hell…that’s not very Christian at all.  The context isn’t what bothers me, it’s the audacity of their conceited claim.  But thanks, those kinda statements make me think I’m already there!  Then, I guess, they’d be right…
As for the violence:  violence is a characteristic of humans, just as much as spirituality.  If you think that violent Muslims or Christians are violent because they are Muslim or Christian, then I’d have to disagree.  You’d be sourcing and attribute upon another attribute, and it doesn’t work that way.  I’m convinced that it’s more the type of person, and if they weren’t religious at all, they’d still have an affinity for violence.
Now, I can respect other’s beliefs.  I happen to enjoy reading mythology, religious lore, traditions, etc., it truly fascinates me and can be quite moving (perhaps it’s what I instill in the text).  But, if you can’t respect me just the same, then I’ve no time for you (as a side note, I give people the benefit of the doubt and they have respect - until they lose it).

Alright, this is for Jennifer.  I need some clarification on this (as I’ve not conversed with you before…):

I’m going to agree with Janus here.  As there is no rock hard scientific proof you can present that one religion (or lack thereof) is correct and the rest are faulty, there’s no reason to be hostile.  However, there are in-duh-viduals out there that absolutely MUST convert or kill non-believers and this is where we run into problems.

Previous to that:

Personally, I think the only solution is to get rid of one of the two religions.  Since I’m christian based, I’d vote that it’s the muslims that are gotten rid of/retrained/converted.  But since the world is full of bleeding heart liberals, I highly doubt that will happen short of thermo-nuclear war started by a conservative hot head.  Just my two cents.

Sarcasm?

“I condemn Christianity. I raise against the Christian church the most terrible accusation that any accuser has ever uttered. It is to me the ultimate conceivable corruption. It has possessed the will to the final corruption that is even possible. The Christian church has left nothing untouched by its depravity: it has turned every value into a disvalue, every truth into a falsehood, every integrity into a vileness of the soul.”

Frederick Nietzsche-

He is speaking of the Roman Catholic church of the middle ages no? Even Christians will admit there was corruption in the church IL, power corrupts, and Christians are still human.

Yes true. nice point

The Koreans have a great word (learned it from my son’s Tae Kwon Do class).

Yendo: Peace and love. More Yendo, less bombings.

Peace and love taught in a combat class? :?

peace through superior firepower. :mrgreen:

and that is to have the strength to do whatever it is that God wants me to do.

why would God want anything, in the way we as humans understand want? if god is omnipotent, anything he wanted would be reality. and then, why would he want anything for people? are they special in some way? how? why? God is omnipotent. who are we to presume we are special?

I am alive, I have a spirit (or soul if you prefer)

where is your soul? is it in your head? your heart? does it influence your actions? is it influence by your actions? cant you see the soul as merely the impact of your actions rippling into the future?

@Janus1:

and that is to have the strength to do whatever it is that God wants me to do.

why would God want anything, in the way we as humans understand want? if god is omnipotent, anything he wanted would be reality. and then, why would he want anything for people? are they special in some way? how? why? God is omnipotent. who are we to presume we are special?

well - he tells us we are special.
To answer your first point, a parent can force his child to share, but there is much more joy in watching his child share because it is the right thing to do.

I am alive, I have a spirit (or soul if you prefer)

where is your soul? is it in your head? your heart? does it influence your actions? is it influence by your actions? cant you see the soul as merely the impact of your actions rippling into the future?

where is your motivation?  Is it in your head or your heart or your gut?  Well - your head, i suppose.  But there is the idea that there is more than the 3 dimensions that you can see.  As for the way it influences/is influenced i am not sure.  The idea is that our physical selves are a poor reflection of our souls in the 3-dimensional realm.

motivation comes from physical needs, or from emotional responses, due to chemical impulses in our brains. we are limited by our physical reality, and we have needs that we must fulfill as people, and these breed our motivations. an infinite, omnipotent being would have no motivation in the sense that we percieve it, because anything he desired/wanted/needed (again, human emotions) would be reality.

well - he tells us we are special.
To answer your first point, a parent can force his child to share, but there is much more joy in watching his child share because it is the right thing to do.

but parents are not omnipotent beings. they are humans. i understand the analogy you are making, but im saying that there really is no way to accurately compare an omnipotent being to a human, you do a tremendous disservice to God by doing so. there is no cause for why God would have any interest in people. for an infinite being, who can see billions of years in a second, something like rocks would probably be far more interesting, because over longer periods of time, there is tremendous activity. watching people, who move in much shorter periods of time, would be far less interesting. but then again, as an omnipotent being, there would be no cause for rank ordering anything, and he would probably find no more interest in rocks anyway, because again, he is omnipotent.

i am just curious, but dose it say anywhere in the bible that if you do theses things you are a Christian? i was under the impression that the word or idea of “Christianity” was a man made thing. all religions have rules that one must abide by if they want to enter that religions version of Paradise correct? i believe so. so who am i or any of you to say that my religion is better than yours, like some people said in here allready, its gods job to sort us out, so why spend what little time we have in this life bitching about who’s right and who’s wrong.
i always liked Norse religion, the whole “well your god is nice and all but could he beat our god in a arm wrestling match?” that was at least a very hands on religion (no pun intended) were the gods walked with the people, lived with the people and fought with the people. Jesus died for our sins? I’m pretty sure i wasn’t alive in the roman era, so how could he have died for “MY” sins? if god is real and we as humans are his only followers, then what is the deal with the rest of the universe? there are countless planets out there with life, did god create them too? when it comes to religion there are just to many unanswered questions. i for one don’t believe in god for that reason alone. i believe in 2 things, things that i believe to be the only 2 truths or absolutes if you will. 1.) We only have one life that we know of. so i plan on living my life the best way i can. and 2.) nothing lasts forever except this phrase alone. These will always be true. when the earth blows up someday by an asteroid or by the people or whatever the universe will still be here and will still go on. enjoy the life you have and stop worrying about what happens when you die, because if thats all you think about then you are dead allready.

Hi Chaps

I don’t want to upset anyone but please prove me wrong.
I am god no one but I myself exists, I have created this world and all of you for my own pleasure. There is no god without me for if I do not exist then neither does he in my eye’s
:evil:

Its all about faith and what you believe not what other’s say.
What about the other books of the bible most people don’t even know exist, i.e. The Nag Hammadi Library i.e. all the books of the bible the council of Nicea feared we would read.

Cheers
Rob

Bible says in Romans 10:9

9 if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Says nothing more nothing less… the difference is Heavenly Eternal Rewards reaped by what you do down here

See 1 Corinthians 3:11-16:

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
  12 But if any man buildeth on the foundation gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay, stubble;
  13 each man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it is revealed in fire; and the fire itself shall prove each man’s work of what sort it is.
  14 If any man’s work shall abide which he built thereon, he shall receive a reward.
  15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as through fire.
  16 Know ye not that ye are a temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

Yes, Christianity is a man made title… the Biblical greek refers to what we call “Christian” today as a Believer… To get even more technical the Church (German word Kirk or Sanctuary; am I right F_alk?) is Called Ekklaisia or “Called out ones”…

The Reason I am a Christian is because it is the only rreligion I know of in exsistence that proclaims the following(in so many words and plenty of passages): the God of the Universe wants a personal relationship with you 24/7… James 4:8 says:

Draw near to God and he will draw near to you.

That is profoundly amazing to me. I don’t need to worry about doing something to please him or else because I can draw near to him and have the greatest adventure set before me, looking me in the face, and saying “want to come along?”
              And why do you say you don’t believe in unseeable absolutes? You believe in “love” or the human expression of it. That can not be defined in the natural exsistence that you walk in and around, so why do you say it is impossible for someone to love you enough to die for you if that person was desperately trying to live life with you? Heck, I hear real life stories of that happening… I think it is crystal clear…
      As far as seeing into the future I believe he can do that, so would answer “how can he die for my sins in the 21st Century?” question posed. And you think it is a worry? IT ISN’T ABOUT DOING THIS OR THAT IT IS  ABOUT RELATIONSHIP!

'nuff said…             
GG

The Thermodynamics of Hell:

Using Boyle’s Law,(gas cools off when it expands and heats up when it is compressed).

Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat) or endothermic (absorbs heat)?

First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So we
need to know the rate that souls are moving into Hell and the rate they
are leaving. I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to
Hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for how
many souls are entering Hell, lets look at the different religions that
exist in the world today.

Some of these religions state that if you are not a member of
their religion, you will go to Hell. Since there are more than one of
these religions and since people do not belong to more than one
religion, we can project that all souls go to Hell. With birth and death rates as they are,
we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially.

Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell;
because Boyle’s Law states that in order for the temperature
and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of
Hell has to expand proportionately as souls are added.

This gives us two possibilities:

1. If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls
enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase
until all Hell breaks loose.

2. If Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in
Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes
over.

So everyone which is it?

If we accept the postulate given to me by Stephanie during my Freshman year
in High School (26 years ago),

" … that it will be a cold day in Hell before I sleep with you,"

and take into account the fact that to this very day I still have not
succeeded in having sexual relations with her, then #2 cannot be true,
and thus I am sure that Hell is exothermic and will not freeze.

That was hysterical Raunchy!

now that you mention it the weather in Detroit was a little weird. :lol:

@Wargaming_nut:

To all of you believers out there,do you believe that Muslims are going to hell because thay dont follow Jesus? According to your religion,its a fact so be honest and say it!! Quit saying that another religion has the same merits as yours because its a F****g  lie…

Muslims are going to hell. So are Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, atheists, agnostics, Deists, Wicca-ists, and every other non-Christian on the planet. I’ve never said otherwise. It’s not pretty, but as far as I’m concerned, it’s the truth.

And I’ve never claimed Muslims and Christians can live in peace; anyone can see that historically this has been impossible, and logically can’t work. So what’s your point?

And as for religion being bull; that’s totally your opinion. Personally, I think your opinion is bull, so we’re even. No hard feelings.

Christians are going to hell. Everyone else has it made. Opinions. Opinions. Opinions. Yeah, everyone has them yet some of them should be kept to themselves. However, no one is gonna practice that. So neither will I.

Right on, dude.  8-)

as far as faith being simplistic and childish dead on… good guess… and I am guilty of being a fundamentalist christian… If you want to be a atheist fine with me…

end of story…

GG

As a Christian, I was taught that there are several ways to get into Heaven / avoid Hell.

The methods depend on
(1) whether you have heard or read or otherwised observed the Good News. and/or
(2) whether you are a devout Jew.

The pagan way:
Lack of meeting either condition means that you are judged on your own inherent goodness (innocence) according to whatever standard God imposes.  I was not taught the specifcations of this standard, but the Bible indicates that it would follow the lines of the 2 greatest commandments Jesus speaks of in Mat 22:34-38.  This is why Jesus performed miracles for Romans and Samaritans and not only for other Jews as performed through the prior prophets in the Old Testament.  God wanted more people to make it to Heaven.  This is not easy, but doable for pagans who have been denied the Good News of Salvation through Christ.  It is also considered much easier for children and babies to enter Heaven because willful sins are the realm of adults who are assumed to have inherent knowledge of good and evil.  Innocence is considered to fade as the child reaches adulthood.

The Jewish way:
Grown up Jews can make it into Heaven by keeping the entirety of the Jewish law.  This is considered an impossibility, accomplished only by Jesus.  Even some of the prophets were unable to keep the entire law, yet they are widely considered to be in Heaven for faithfully bearing witness to Israel and then getting soon killed by the mobs and/or kings who refused God’s message.  They are considered by Christians to be honored messengers of the Lord.  Keeping all of the laws also involves massive sacrificial offerings on a regular basis to redeem a lifetime of sins.  The heart behind the sacrifice must show a tremendous love of the Lord.  The sacrifice can not just be something you were about to throw away.  It should be something you really wanted to keep or use, but your giving it to God means you really loved God.  Genesis 4 highlights this; Abel gave the the best of the firstborn of his flock while Cain only gave “some fruits of the soil”.  We infer that while giving fruit is nice, the Lord wants our best, and that is why Cain’s offering was disfavored.  It is widely believed that King David is in Heaven for having the right heart for the Lord, while most others are not, notably King Solomon, who was a wiser ruler, and wrote more of what was compiled into the Bible.  Both kings committed great sins, but David gained mercy from the Almighty.

The Christian way:
Christians meet all of the following:
1>  They have received the Good News of God giving his only begotten Son Jesus as the ultimate sacrifice for their individual sins.
2>  They realize the weight of their own sins, and repent of them, or at least strive towards the repentance.
Sins include things not done when they should have been.  The same applies to the Hebraic sins where inaction can be sin where action is required. 
3>  They accept Jesus’ sacrifice to wash them of their past sins.  This is to show faith that Jesus has the power to do so.
4>  They accept Jesus as Lord and Savior.  This means giving up the old life and faithfully taking up the new one of honoring Jesus.  They share the Good News with others as an act of love.

The Christian way of reaching heaven is considered to be much easier than the other ways.

Christians also believe that Armageddon will happen after all of the world has heard the witness of the Good News.  There are communist and heavily Muslim parts of the world where this is denied to the children.  We can also include certain sects even in the USA, where media restrictions allow a charismatic cadre to dominate the affairs of the group.