Fleet Sizes

Good afternoon Gamerman01.  Do you use the US airbases on Wake, Midway, and Guam for the bombers?  I played a game once before as the US doing this but I think I focused too much on this tactic and did not invest in the destroyers or subs as you have suggested.

Hi Dafyd!

I don’t usually have many bombers in the Pacific, but yes those airbases can all be key!  I’ve been finding that putting about 5 fighters on a combination of Midway and Wake on US1 seems to cause the Axis player to delay an attack until J3.  And then there’s always the nasty naval base to Midway (or possibly Wake) when the Japanese player thinks he’s going to block you off with 1 or 2 destroyers!  I think I pay more attention to these seemingly minor islands with airbases than my opponents often do, even as Japan……  Indeed, I have found myself collecting the weird Japanese perimeter island NO in more games than not, lately  :-o  It starts innocently enough… just snagging Guam, Midway, and Wake…  Then all you need is Solomons (very key landing place for attacking bases on Queensland or fleet in 62/63) and Gilbert and you’re there  :wink:

I can stop grabbing islands whenever I want. Just one more objective…

@WILD:

When you said that subs are the best all around attack/defense unit you lost me for a minute. We know that when subs are attacked they aren’t too good defensively (def @1), but if you are buying enough to make them 40% of your fleet to soak hits, then yea they are cheap and will keep your high end units firing longer (still not too sure though)

Ok. One way to think about this is. Imagine that art is 2 attack and 2 defence, they cost 4 and do not give a bonus to inf. How many inf would you have in your main force then?

THe price dfference between art and inf is the same as dd vs sub. The number of dice you get is very similar .

I would even in such a scenario have about 70-80% inf and the rest art. (+ whatever i buy in tanks and planes).

Subs is the infantery of the sea.

The ability to INF to picket vs. the inability of subs to do so should not be overlooked.

Good point - in that way, destroyers are the infantry of the sea

But Kreuz was absolutely right, that subs are the infantry of the sea when it comes to cheapest fodder, and it often makes sense to spread them out, 1 per zone, for example

Long time lurker….

For this reason, I always buy both subs and destroyers in equal parts.  You have  the flexibility of a destroyer picket when you need it, or to provide some fodder from an air only attack, and you have the cheap subs to provide fodder for the massive fleet attack/engagement.

Sometimes, balance is the min/max…

Welcome from out of the shadows!  You should post more!  :-)

The more I play the more I see DDs as “sea infantry” and subs as specialty units primarily good for killing DDs economically, sticking in blockade zones, and forcing opponents to buy more DDs than they’d otherwise like to spend on.

One little trick I’ve learned recently is that buying single subs and putting them in zones where your opponent doesn’t want to leave his whole fleet is a good way of bleeding off his DDs so that when he runs out you can place subs as a way to build a navy in a zone that would otherwise be vulnerable to a strike.

The sub/DD game is like a little minigame within the game. Whichever one your opponent has, you want the other one as a counter. Opponent has subs, you need DDs you have no choice. Opponent has DDs you have more choices but subs are the cheapest way to get the job done.

This is one of the rare topics that everyone seems to agree upon, because its pretty theoretical rather than applied.

Cruisers and Battleships are too expensive, use the ones you already have but build more sparingly if at all.  The bombardment shots are too easy to block and are not first-strike.

Carriers are awesome, the only drawback is that they can take hits (esp from kamikazes and subs) which would render them unable to support planes.  Carriers cannot attack but they can permit you to shuttle-stage your fliers (so as many as 4 planes can actually use the carriers on a single turn).  The fact that US, UK, Japan and Germany start with copious numbers of planes contributes to this belief.  It is actually a good idea to build even more carriers than you can fill with planes, because they can soak hits and provide free landing spaces for non coms and allied fighters.

Destroyers are too pricey, but they are the only cheap ship that blocks movement and sub ambushes.  This means you can’t live without them, but that you cannot build your stack out of them either

Subs are tempting, they are the best unit for the price until you consider that their special rules require that you must also have a traditional fleet to support your sub strikeforce, they can never really operate on their own unless your opponent is already suppressed.

Transports full of attack teams cost 14 IPCs, so they are almost as expensive as any two small units or a carrier, highlighting the challenge of playing the US.