I like the idea of building a factory in Persia and building mech/tanks there to send to help Russia directly, but I also often want to build a factory in Egypt to help defend the Mediterranean, since the Axis always have control of it for the first part of the game. However, the UK can only make around 40 IPC’s, 35 if Italy/Germany take Gibraltar or Malta or Cyprus, and so it’s hard to build fully in both factories every turn. Would it be better to just build a factory in Persia and defend Africa by building in South Africa?
This is in the context of bid games where I take bids to kill Taranto, Tobruk, and Ethiopia on turn 1, and usually clear Africa by turn 2 (until it’s reinvaded with transports).
… Would it be better to just build a factory in Persia and defend Africa by building in South Africa?
I think this is the best strategy. These to locations are out of Italian reach for the first couple of turns and an IC in Persia could quickly deliver troops to India if threatened by the Japanese.
Yeah, if the Germans take South France and build transports in the Med, the Italians can land in Transjordan or Alexandria and then Germany can take Egypt using planes in Rome and bombers in West Germany. I’m not sure that 3 units there a turn is enough to stop that.
I play very often with a friend who is very effective at defending Egypt. He build an Egyptian IC UK1. He also brings the loaded indian TT+navy and the loaded Med TT to Ethiopia. The Indian air force goes to Brithish Somaliland. All this stuff goes to Egypt UK2 with the surviving Maltese planes and three new infantries. The BB follows next round with the remaining indian airplane. And just in case, he places two loaded TT in South Africa to take back Egypt UK3. Most of the time, it’s enough to stop the Axis or discourage them (Me!) to go for for Africa/Middle East.
I sometimes do play it in a similar way, because of bad experiance in loosing Egypt quickly and not beeing able to take it back.
The minor in Persia garants me to shuck forces into India or russia to fortify.
@Sire:
I play very often with a friend who is very effective at defending Egypt. He build an Egyptian IC UK1. He also brings the loaded indian TT+navy and the loaded Med TT to Ethiopia. The Indian air force goes to Brithish Somaliland. All this stuff goes to Egypt UK2 with the surviving Maltese planes and three new infantries. The BB follows next round with the remaining indian airplane. And just in case, he places two loaded TT in South Africa to take back Egypt UK3. Most of the time, it’s enough to stop the Axis or discourage them (Me!) to go for for Africa/Middle East.
Sire Fred,
what is you’re axis-strategy to Counter this UK offensive? Did he sink the Italian fleet on his first turn?
@Sire:
I play very often with a friend who is very effective at defending Egypt. He build an Egyptian IC UK1. He also brings the loaded indian TT+navy and the loaded Med TT to Ethiopia. The Indian air force goes to Brithish Somaliland. All this stuff goes to Egypt UK2 with the surviving Maltese planes and three new infantries. The BB follows next round with the remaining indian airplane. And just in case, he places two loaded TT in South Africa to take back Egypt UK3. Most of the time, it’s enough to stop the Axis or discourage them (Me!) to go for for Africa/Middle East.
Does Japan not exploit this tactic by the British Player? Turn 1/2 DOW and the Japanese have the DEI and bonus objective by turn 2. Potentially India falling by turn 4/5 with the huge IPC income?
I usually prefer India to fall above Egypt and/or the Middle East; very similar and linked to preferring Japan getting to a huge income above Germany + Italy doing so. As far as I know, the allies usually face these dilemma’s. The allies need to have placed a high bid in the med/Africa to neutralize the axis there without weaking India. Or they need to get very lucky. At least against a ruthless axis opponent ;-).
What the allies gain here they easily loose there or the other way around…
About the mICs, I prefer just the one in Egypt and/or the one in SA, but it really depends on what the plans are. If another mIC is built in Persia, there are usually 2 ICs producing (Persia and Egypt most likely) with the 3rd one falling silent. Also a Persian mIC is in danger of being captured by the axis and the SA-Egypt combo is just as good as the Egypt-Persian one, with the exception that you need to think ahead one more turn.
My two cents.
If you have 2 transports in the Indian ocean working together with the SA IC and the ______ IC, I find that it doesn’t matter where you build it… again, as long as you have the versatility of the
2 shucking transports, and if they can be protected.
The Hessian, we play with no bid. My opponent do the Tarento and Malta Navy attack. A Persian IC could not help to save Egypt in time against this strategy.
Good but risky and costly counter is Sea Lion also teamed with an India Crush. It can become boring to do after many plays.
Sorry, I’m a little bit off topic of this thread.
@Sire:
The Hessian, we play with no bid. My opponent do the Tarento and Malta Navy attack. A Persian IC could not help to save Egypt in time against this strategy.
Good but risky and costly counter is Sea Lion also teamed with an India Crush. It can become boring to do after many plays.
Sorry, I’m a little bit off topic of this thread.
To secure Egypt with the strategy your opponent use he has to let go the Taranto Raid and simply block malta and the one passage left for Italia to Amphib Egypt and he should be good to go.
He should use the CR (if survived) for Malta and DD for sz 96 I think.
(don’t know the map out of my right now)
British middle eastern mIC’s are a tough thing to discuss, because they depend greatly on what the axis are up to.
To build an IC in Egypt on UK1, I’d have to see, at a minimum, this:
-No legitimate Sealion threat.
-Taranto has a near-certain chance to resolve favorably for the British.
-The German and Italian players are inexperienced, or are, or soon will be, drunk.
Even then, there is the very real (and probable) risk that Italy, with the help of German planes, takes Egypt, and you’ve given the enemy a free minor IC. If the US is not going to be pushing on gibraltar soonish, this means Italy is going to be a monster.
I prefer, again, depending on the results of G1 and J1, to take Iraq UK1, then build an IC there on 2. Again, this depends greatly on what Germany and Japan have done, but I do prefer “abandoning” India over losing the middle east, which seems to be a popular sentiment for most people.
The Iraq mIC is two spaces away from the med, making it very difficult for Italy to take. It is two spaces from Egypt, allowing you to buy slow then fast units to lead up to a retaking of Egypt (or just to drive mechs into fortify it). It is as close to Russia as anything else. Naval-wise, it’s no further from a rampaging Japanese transport fleet, but if they’re going that far west, that’s probably not the most effective thing it could be doing in the Pacific, so good. Terrestrially, it’s further from India to protect from a mid or late-game Japanese encroaching invasion.
If Britain is doing exceptionally well, say because of a G1 or G2 declaration on Russia and going all-in for a land battle, then I might build a mIC in Persia in addition to the one in Iraq, or, rarely, Egypt. At this point it’s UK3 or 4 and the game is far too advanced to discuss strategy without a long list of assumptions spelled out beforehand.
Well, I usually build in London on UK1, build the factory in Egypt and activate Persia on UK2, and build the factory in Persia on turn 3. Then I build something like 3 tanks in Persia, 2 fighters in Egypt to send into Russia, depending on if I have my NO or not.
Don’t mind the Egypt factory, when you are UK and want to keep your NO bonus you really should put some effort into keeping Malta.
Don’t mind the Egypt factory, when you are UK and want to keep your NO bonus you really should put some effort into keeping Malta.
What is the most common use for Malta Narvik?
@aequitas:
Don’t mind the Egypt factory, when you are UK and want to keep your NO bonus you really should put some effort into keeping Malta.
What is the most common use for Malta Narvik?
Well, you need to hold it (and Cyprus and Gibraltar) to get the British NO. As for the units there, the fighter is usually used at Taranto and the inf may be used for an amphibious assault later.
Don’t mind the Egypt factory, when you are UK and want to keep your NO bonus you really should put some effort into keeping Malta.
That would not be very cost effective if you are trying to hold Malta.
@aequitas:
What is the most common use for Malta Narvik?
That depends how many Pretzels your friends have had when the Malta action takes place. Too many of those and Malta is barely used by UK as a landing spot after the infamous Taranto Raid. Next turn Italy ignores it and go full bore Egypt. Then USA join the game, add some turns, times go by and maybe the forgotten infantry there is used to reinforce Italy at the late game. But as I said, I don’t know your friends.
But if you ask, not for the common use by the average casual player, but for the ultimate use, by the skilled and brilliant player, how it should really be, how the top ladder player use Malta, the answer is simple. The main purpose of Malta is being a fat bait. If the Italian player is not too drunk, he will recognize Malta as a vital spot to deny the UK maintenance bonus. Of course Cyprus, the Big Gib or Alex will do the job too, but they are far too exposed to be defended, so he will for sure try to take Malta as a priority target nr 1. This will not surprise the skilled UK player, on the contrary, he will expect it and set up Malta for a killing zone. The Italian player will be the one taken by surprise when his fleet is sunk.
But, to set up a proper decent killing zone, UK need a factory not too far away from the action. Egypt would be a rational choice, since newly placed units can reach both Malta and Cyprus. Egypt would be a bold choice too, since it is so hard to protect. But real men don’t use protection, they gamble, so Egypt it should be. And if Italy do capture Egypt with a free factory, maybe they lure themselves to buy a lot of expensive stuff there, money that could be put to better use in the decisive Eastern Front.
Thank you Narvik for your explanation!
And if Italy do capture Egypt with a free factory, maybe they lure themselves to buy a lot of expensive stuff there, money that could be put to better use in the decisive Eastern Front.
I would argue some money spent in Egypt is usually well spent for Italy. Especially if you can keep your Italian fleet alive in the Med. Egypt is worth at least 2 IPCs/turn, perhaps 7 if you don’t have Gib (which is a big problem in of itself but outside the scope of this conversation). Perhaps it’s even your gateway to a few extra IPCs from african territories.
Building some cheap units there per turn (not even necessarily three every turn) doesn’t cost you much in the long run, but it does hurt Britain. Furthermore, if Britain has an Iraqi (or Persian, but see my previous post) mIC going to help out Russia, you’ve just now made them think about what to do instead of just automatically driving north.
What expensive things would they buy that are wasted? Planes? They are mobile enough to go wherever they need to go, provided you’re thinking one turn ahead. Boats? They, too, are something you could normally build closeby as well. The worst thing they could build, then, would be 3 armor per turn. If they did that, they’re probably going to start raking in at least a turn or two of extra income from Africa, and further hurt the British economy, as well as providing a point of distraction for either the U.S. or U.K. in the coming turns.
I don’t think this is a valid point to make to support the decision of handing Italy a free mIC on top of a VC.
