Allies Strategy opinion

Japan attacking the Pacific Allies early is better for the Axis if done right.

@Young:

Japan attacking the Pacific Allies early is better for the Axis if done right.

But JP not attacking UK and draw US into the war gives JP +10 NO and US -25 NO, for two turns that is 70 IPC difference compared to attacking UK/US J1?

The biggest key to the allies strategy is getting the US in the war.

I disagree.  Any viable strategy has to consider a lot of variables, and when the US comes into the war is only a small part of it.  What power is responsible for protecting what VC, and how to react to the Axis player’s moves.

When the US comes into the war is a factor, but by round 7 or 8, it won’t matter if you don’t have a solid Allied strategy regardless.  Remember, the decision is out of your hands, so any good Allied strategy has contingencies and variations for the US entering each round.

I believe the best strategy is the British buying a factory in Kwangtung. This almost forces Japan to attack the British or risk losing asia. This is a win win for the allies, either the British dominate Asia or the Us gets in the war.

I’m not sure where you’re getting this from.  Japan would not be forced to attack Kwangtung immediately.  Placing a factory in the heart of their empire in a territory they WILL take anyway is a free gift that weakens India.

If Japan DOESN’T take the factory for a Round or two, the UK will be able to place 6 units max there.  Very easy to take as Japan.  And India can’t reinforce through China without issuing a DOW.
The British ability to dominate Asia is imperceptibly low.

The way I see it, Japan will still set up and do their planned J2/J3 move, you’ve wasted 12 ICs that could be 4 INF to protect India, and given Japan a free factory, something many players purchase on their own anyway.

It’s not quite the win/win you’re envisioning.

If japan sets up and attacks early, J1 J2, it is easier to get the DEI and the bonus, while denying the Allies their bonuses.  So that +70 isn’t really +70 at all.  You have to subtract the gains Japan made by attacking early.  The DEI plus bonus is +20.

Now the second biggest thing with the US is getting troops on the front. I believe the best way to do this in Europe is get transports to Norway and Finland. Once there you can build two minor industrial complexes and be able to produce 6 units on Europe every turn, combine with buying planes in the US this will turn the tide of the war.

While a viable strategy, I often see Germany building a navy.  It can be quite difficult to get to Norway.  Once there, you have to contend with a counter assault by the Luftewaffe and any subs hiding above Germany.  They start with 5 fighters, 5 tac, 2 strat.  It takes a considerable navy to be able to withstand that.

In Asia the key is getting transports (with tanks) to the soviet Far East. Once there you can get to Manchuria/Korea in two turns and just like Europe build two factories combine with naval support from western US.

Again, a factory in Korea is good to have as the US, but difficult to execute.  Travelling through the Soviet Far East isn’t the best way to go.  Any taking of Korea necessitates the destruction of the Japanese fleet, otherwise Japan can just land from SZ6 and attack with planes.  You’ll never hold it long enough to build a factory and produce there if Japan has a navy and your land units are taking the long way.

In addition, how do you protect your transports that go to the SFE?  They are within striking distance from Japan.

If the US goes North, then Japan gets the DEI mostly uncontested.  Sometimes the US sailing from Hawaii to AU to the DEI is a better plan.

I always attack J1 wether or not there’s a factory on Hong Kong, and I don’t care that I’m giving the U.S 20 IPCs in bonuses.

@baseball02:

Ok I understand that. What would you suggest as US turn 1, 2, and 3 purchases?

There a so many variations it’s a “loaded” question.  There are no right answers.  To help frame your thinking:

**Which Axis power is the US going to concentrate on? **
Are they going after Japan, for a KJF (Kill Japan first), leaving Germany alone until Japan is surrounded and collecting 10 ICs a round?  Hoping to double back in time before Egypt falls (because Moscow will fall unaided)?

Are you going after Germany first, letting India and ANAZC to turtle up and defend themselves until Germany is safely contained?  Will Russia be sending aid through China?

Are you going for a balanced approach, where you spend on both fronts every round?  What’s the most economical way to do this?

Other questions to answer that might influence what you buy:  Is Germany going for a SeaLion (the invasion of England)?  When did Germany attack Russia?  Is Japan attacking Russia as well?  Is the UK going to do Taranto and destroy the starting Italian navy (a battleship BB and curiser CC) and the dd / transport?

To answer the question, pick a strategy (KJF, KGF, balanced) and allow your purchases to be flexible to adapt to Axis strategy.

KGF:  Buy enough navy to overcome the German navy.  Shift to more DDs than CVs if Germany has a lot of subs and is trying to convoy the UK.  Make sure you have several transports ready to move out when war comes.  Decide if you’re going to strat bomb Germany or just stick to holding Gibraltar and sending support through North Africa.  You’ll need more carriers and dds if you’re thinking about going for Norway, as you’ll be closer to a Luftwaffe counterattack.

KJF:  Carriers and support.  Since Japan starts with a naval advantage and you don’t want to rush into battle, I tend to buy carriers first, then planes for them on future rounds.  Planes can catch up to the carrier a bit easier.  make sure you buy DD/SS every turn, or you’ll end up with all big units and no buffering fodder.  And don’t forget transports!  One Allied failing I’ve seen is having a sizeable navy with no transports.  It’s the transports landing that takes away the Japanese money.

Balanced:  If you’re sticking with support through North Africa, or just buying protection for UK transports, DDs and transports with fighters is good for Europe.  For Japan, SS/DD combo is good, backed by bombers.  Force Japan to trade DDs for subs or get convoyed.  You can tie up $$ every round, forcing some money away from their ground/India game.

So don’t stick to a rigid buy plan, because any purchase planned for several rounds in the future could end up being a stupid buy if the Axis do the right things.

To quote YG, “the US should pee carriers”.  :-D

You’ll also want atleast 1-2 destroyers in your fleet, more if G goes heavy sub builds.

One possible US1 pacific heavy purchase (I think suggested by Wild Bill) is 2 carriers and a battleship off Western US.  Ofcourse if J attacks J1 then you could go with more less expensive builds since the factories would all be majors.

For the USA in the Atlantic, I personally think in numbers of carriers + FTR, since this force not only defends the fleet, it is also used to project a threat (FTR flying escort missions for your SBR campaign + providing airsupport for your land units).

Assuming a German force of 3subs + 2STR + 1FTR + 1TAC (TUV=63),
I recommend buying 2CV, 1DD, 3FTR (TUV=70). Since the USA already starts with a FTR, the 2CV should sail fully loaded.
the UK can also add some ships to this once this fleet arrives @ Gibraltar and/or the channel and should also provide scramblers whenever the fleet is based next to an AB. I think Gibraltar should have an AB, London already has an AB and the UK can Always build an emergency one if the fleet would otherwise be exposed.

@Whackamatt:

The biggest key to the allies strategy is getting the US in the war.

I disagree.  Any viable strategy has to consider a lot of variables, and when the US comes into the war is only a small part of it.  What power is responsible for protecting what VC, and how to react to the Axis player’s moves.

When the US comes into the war is a factor, but by round 7 or 8, it won’t matter if you don’t have a solid Allied strategy regardless.  Remember, the decision is out of your hands, so any good Allied strategy has contingencies and variations for the US entering each round.

I believe the best strategy is the British buying a factory in Kwangtung. This almost forces Japan to attack the British or risk losing asia. This is a win win for the allies, either the British dominate Asia or the Us gets in the war.

I’m not sure where you’re getting this from.  Japan would not be forced to attack Kwangtung immediately.  Placing a factory in the heart of their empire in a territory they WILL take anyway is a free gift that weakens India.

If Japan DOESN’T take the factory for a Round or two, the UK will be able to place 6 units max there.  Very easy to take as Japan.  And India can’t reinforce through China without issuing a DOW.
The British ability to dominate Asia is imperceptibly low.

The way I see it, Japan will still set up and do their planned J2/J3 move, you’ve wasted 12 ICs that could be 4 INF to protect India, and given Japan a free factory, something many players purchase on their own anyway.

It’s not quite the win/win you’re envisioning.

If japan sets up and attacks early, J1 J2, it is easier to get the DEI and the bonus, while denying the Allies their bonuses.  So that +70 isn’t really +70 at all.  You have to subtract the gains Japan made by attacking early.  The DEI plus bonus is +20.

Now the second biggest thing with the US is getting troops on the front. I believe the best way to do this in Europe is get transports to Norway and Finland. Once there you can build two minor industrial complexes and be able to produce 6 units on Europe every turn, combine with buying planes in the US this will turn the tide of the war.

While a viable strategy, I often see Germany building a navy.  It can be quite difficult to get to Norway.  Once there, you have to contend with a counter assault by the Luftewaffe and any subs hiding above Germany.  They start with 5 fighters, 5 tac, 2 strat.  It takes a considerable navy to be able to withstand that.

In Asia the key is getting transports (with tanks) to the soviet Far East. Once there you can get to Manchuria/Korea in two turns and just like Europe build two factories combine with naval support from western US.

Again, a factory in Korea is good to have as the US, but difficult to execute.  Travelling through the Soviet Far East isn’t the best way to go.  Any taking of Korea necessitates the destruction of the Japanese fleet, otherwise Japan can just land from SZ6 and attack with planes.  You’ll never hold it long enough to build a factory and produce there if Japan has a navy and your land units are taking the long way.

In addition, how do you protect your transports that go to the SFE?  They are within striking distance from Japan.

If the US goes North, then Japan gets the DEI mostly uncontested.  Sometimes the US sailing from Hawaii to AU to the DEI is a better plan.

Thanks for saying what I was mostly thinking.

Ok…. So another question. What would you consider the best naval defense against 1-3 German subs and 2-4 planes?

I superior force.  Use the battle calculator to tell you if they’d win or not, and if they would…don’t move in yet.  It’s up to you to place your units in harm’s way.  The US has the luxury of waiting until they want to or need to move in without fear of someone attacking their capital.

The “best” naval defense depends on what your strategy is.  I find carriers essential in the Pacific, and often judge if I have the upper hand by a carrier count of the Allies vs. Japan.  If Japan has 6 loaded carriers to your 2, Japan is probably winning at the moment.  In Europe, I tend to go with more offshore rolls if I’m feeling offensive, or just stick with destroyers and strat bombers that can land in Gibraltar and England and hit just about anywhere.

Back to your example.  I assume the subs are by Western Germany and the planes are in Normandy or carrier based.  I’d ask…why do you NEED to move in to Gibraltar this turn to put your fleet at risk?  Wait another round and add 4 more destroyers, another carrier and planes, or other round of purchases to your fleet.  Germany usually doesn’t have the same capacity to match your purchases if they want to make progress vs. Russia at all.  Take your time and build up, then move in.

One easy rule is to add up hits and attack power.  If they have 3 subs and 2 ftr 2 tac, that’s 20 atk and 7 hits.  make sure you have 1.5 times the number of hits and you’re probably good.  Go in with 12 destroyers.  or 2 loaded carriers and 4 dds.  Carriers are great because they bring extra 4’s into the fight, and if you’re hard up for money, the UK or France can land their planes on your carrier if you’re thinking pure defense.