Poll: German First Turn Build

@APolaris:

What does everyone think is the best German build first turn in basic A&A 2nd edition? I go with choice 2 personally but the others all have merits as I’ve seen people discuss here. Ideas?

Germany should buy 1 aircraftcarrier and 1 transporter on 5 and 4 men plus 1 artillery on Germany. Place 2 fighters on the aircraftcarrier and you might attack England in round 2 or easily retaliate Norway with 2 men and 2 artillery and planes.

W/o bid…
A) 10 INF
B) 9 INF, 1 ARM or
C) 8 INF, 1 TRN

With a bid
I like a little variety… :wink:

I’d say never build a transport on G1 as it is just a waste of income as it will be destroyed in 1-2 turns.

I could see a German carrier, but only after you have Moscow. Carriers are wonderful ways to protect trannies for use in Operation SeaLion.

I’ve always had success with the 9 INF. and 1 ARM. deal!!!

I’d say never build a transport on G1 as it is just a waste of income as it will be destroyed in 1-2 turns.

In a no-bid game, it can pay for itself to help Germany with Africa.

Otherwise in a bidding game, you could just place whatever you wanted in Africa, or try a power Europe approach.

Whatever the style of game a smart Allied player will go after that build especially with the UK, and in essence you are just throwing money down the toilet.

There are two ways I’ve seen the transport played

1. Keep BB and original transport by Italy along with the purchased transport which makes for a moderate sized Navy. Assuming success with the Luftwafe/sub attacks taking out the UK Med fleet, the UK won’t have much with which to attack this fleet, maybe 1 sub, 1 bomber? The US to follow up with 1 bomber? Unless I’m forgetting something this isn’t real good odds for the UK/US, although I can see it being attempted as its not great for Germany either.

2. Keep the bought transport at Italy (of course, its the only option for placement) and the original BB and transport near Egypt. The UK won’t be able to attack both with great odds, maybe bomber against the Italy transport and 1 fighter against the BB and original transport. The UK sub should have easily been sunk with the BB and perhaps a fighter although there is the chance of a hit by the sub in defense. If Russia attacks, they could lose a valuable fighter that they need to help strafe Japan later in the game and to help hold Karelia.

Either way, this most likely extends the life of the Germany Navy in the Med by at least one turn. In a no-bid game, this might enable Germany to move a couple additional inf to Africa which will be crucial for any chance for victory, the 8 ipcs will be more than recovered by either a longer span in holding Africa, or by forcing the Allies to retake Africa strong, thereby weakening the reinforcement to Karelia.

In a bid game, this could enable the German Navy to escape into the Indian ocean which opens up different options (Madagascar, India?, Australia?, New Zealand, or how about Brazil with the bonus of the German navy in S. Atlantic to prevent shipment of troops to S. Africa by transport?). While this is somewhat duplication of what Japan could do, it could force the Allies to react to a situation they have not seen before.

1. Keep BB and original transport by Italy along with the purchased transport which makes for a moderate sized Navy.

But it will certainly end up a waste. As the Brits I would land ftrs in Cauc, and reinforce with Russians once this happens this fleet is toast. If it moves to the Atlantic its killed and if it stays in the med it is also killed. The problem I have is what does this do get you 2more infantry in Africa. By the way Germany doesn’t need or shouldn’t place large amounts of troops in Africa. Africa should be a distraction/sidebar, so that when the Allies go to retake it Germany can squeeze Karelia. Anymore than that is a waste. Further if you miss my sub I will send a bmb sub versus this fleet, and you’ll end up getting very little for your investment.

In a bid game, this could enable the German Navy to escape into the Indian ocean which opens up different options (Madagascar, India?, Australia?, New Zealand, or how about Brazil with the bonus of the German navy in S. Atlantic to prevent shipment of troops to S. Africa by transport?). While this is somewhat duplication of what Japan could do, it could force the Allies to react to a situation they have not seen before.

No way. No good Allied player is going to let that fleet just roam around. I would advise to always make it priority number one in the first few turns. If it costs 1-2 aircraft sobeit.

I think most tend to leave it in Italy as a land bridge to Afr and to dissuade a weak attempt at invading Italy by the allies.

If you move it, then you risk a quicker invasion. Of course, if you can get it to Japan to bolster their defenses, that might be worth something….

I think most tend to leave it in Italy as a land bridge to Afr and to dissuade a weak attempt at invading Italy by the allies.

An invasion of Italy is nothing to worry about. First most simply trade it 1inf for the 6bucks, anything more is a waste. Germany doesn’t need a fleet in the med and can survive without it.

Oh I wasn’t saying they needed the fleet (as I define as rebuilding if it is lost) what I was saying is it doesn’t hurt to have it. After all, I’m not going to argue with having a spare BB laying around with a tranny…you never know, you might want to re-invade Afr if you can take Moscow. I just don’t think it wise to move it out of Italy as it does make a decent defense against a southern incursion.

@AgentSmith:

1. Keep BB and original transport by Italy along with the purchased transport which makes for a moderate sized Navy.

But it will certainly end up a waste. As the Brits I would land ftrs in Cauc, and reinforce with Russians once this happens this fleet is toast. If it moves to the Atlantic its killed and if it stays in the med it is also killed. The problem I have is what does this do get you 2more infantry in Africa. By the way Germany doesn’t need or shouldn’t place large amounts of troops in Africa. Africa should be a distraction/sidebar, so that when the Allies go to retake it Germany can squeeze Karelia. Anymore than that is a waste. Further if you miss my sub I will send a bmb sub versus this fleet, and you’ll end up getting very little for your investment.

In a bid game, this could enable the German Navy to escape into the Indian ocean which opens up different options (Madagascar, India?, Australia?, New Zealand, or how about Brazil with the bonus of the German navy in S. Atlantic to prevent shipment of troops to S. Africa by transport?). While this is somewhat duplication of what Japan could do, it could force the Allies to react to a situation they have not seen before.

No way. No good Allied player is going to let that fleet just roam around. I would advise to always make it priority number one in the first few turns. If it costs 1-2 aircraft sobeit.

A 4 inf EEu, 1 trn CMD, 1 inf Lib, 1 ipc Ger bid orso can make the trn bid worthwhile and it will be very tough to kill this fleet anytime soon. Furthermore you will be very flexible to send the Afrika units back to Europe if that will give you a decisive advantage (a R1 Ukraine attack might result in such a situation). I dont think that buying a trn in G1 will give the same results/options even remotely.

Fighters in Stalingrad may not be a totally bad idea even without a plan to attack the med fleet.

Say 1 fighter in Cauc + 5 inf should deter any assault on Stalingrad as a way around Karelia. In an RR game, Germany can bring 5 inf, 3 arm and a BB to Cauc and win without the need of any fighters. With a fighter defense, I’d really consider adding the bomber or a fighter to the equation though….of course, I’d probably just use the tranny to take Syria instead.

Anyone ever use the Tranny to get the armor OUT of africa and into the European theater?

Africa’s a nice way to get money, but you definately arn’t going to hold it. Meanwhile, that extra tank might come in handy if it isnt destroyed.

Of course, you could always try to attack through the middle east and up into the Caucases. Any thoughts?

A 4 inf EEu, 1 trn CMD, 1 inf Lib, 1 ipc Ger bid orso can make the trn bid worthwhile and it will be very tough to kill this fleet anytime soon. Furthermore you will be very flexible to send the Afrika units back to Europe if that will give you a decisive advantage (a R1 Ukraine attack might result in such a situation). I dont think that buying a trn in G1 will give the same results/options even remotely.

Well needless to say I’m not a huge fan of this bid, and I’ve beaten it everytime I’ve played it, but not against its originator. I think the real genius of this bid is it uses Allied over aggressiveness against them, but if they don’t do this, the Axis is not in a favorable position in the longterm. Even the creator of this bid has said to me the strafe of Ukr on R1 does much to neutralize it. I think there are some inherent weaknesses that lie within this bid, but I shant say more. I would say its a good bid to play against someone that routinely attacks in Asia against Japan ie KwangBang. I’ve even encountered a few that will attack Manch even with 2guys bid there. In this case I’d say you’re going to catch them with their hands in the cookie jar so to speak.

Anyone ever use the Tranny to get the armor OUT of africa and into the European theater?

Of course. You’ll find people who power Europe bid that is 8inf into Europe. With such a bid Russia should not be attacking much in Europe on R1, and they may even need or want to abandon Karelia. Eitherway Africa becomes a side show as the Germans should hold Karelia by G2, and there isn’t a lot the Russians can do about it. Because of this troops in Africa end up meaning very little.

So it’s a decent act to get your troops and tanks out of Africa and go full bore after the Ruskies. Loosing the 10 IPCs has to hurt though…even if you know you’ll just loose them eventually anyway.

No one ever bids tanks into Europe? Maybe, 21 IPCs, 3 tanks, 2 infantry? The extra 2 inf, will keep E. Euro from falling, and the extra 3 tanks might be a nice addition on your counter attack into Karelia G1.

The Russians become vulnerable if they move inf towards the East from Rus and ENO while keeping the SFE arm out of reach from KAR on R2.

This would be cause to take the Lib arm onto the mainland. Buy 6 arm to take Kar on G2.

If Kar is stacked to the max and the middle and eastern Rus forces go west, then stick w/defense. Add the tran for taking Afr so you can afford the heavier defense while reducing GBR capacity for offence. 8 inf + trn.