Larry Harris 1914 Tournament Rules ( "potential rules" using his language)

"If a power suffers a political collapse, it is required to immediately surrender and leave the game. It no longer has a turn, and all of its land, air, and sea units are removed from the board."

LMAO

good one!

@MistuhJay:

Are the current Russian Revolution rules being replaced by the new Economic/Political collapse rules?

The Russian Revolution optional rule is not used.

Here is a link to the original thread at HGD for those who want to keep up with further tweaks/developments.  It would be appreciated if any comments and results would be posted there rather than here so that it’s easier for us to keep up with them.

I like these new rules on the surface. More of a realistic feel. I really hope in the future these games are playtested more before they are released so we don’t have to continually go through this. Krieg I have got a group of about 10 guys who I play with I am voluteering our services for the next one. The more people that playtest the better as far as I’m concerned. Will play with these rules.

@GoSanchez6:

I really hope in the future these games are playtested more before they are released so we don’t have to continually go through this.

No one has to “go through” anything.  These rules are intended not as a fix, but to adapt a long-playing game to a shorter tournament format.  This is necessary because the nature of this particular game doesn’t lend itself to the usual mechanisms that are used in tournaments to resolve a winner at the end of the time limit.  Larry is simply asking the on-line community to help in testing them out, as we don’t have a lot of time.  Any such assistance is, of course, deeply appreciated.

These rules make turn into mainstream usage - i.e. for all games, not just tournament games, especially if it gives the CPs a chance to win.

I would like to know the rationale for deleting units from the starting setup though.

Krieghund

Are you actually saying there was enough playtesting in 1914?

I’d really like to know your opinion on this.

Especially after we all indeed, we all “had to go through” the contentious months long

Alpha version 1,  Alpha version 2, Alpha version 3; no wait this is the real Alpha set of rules process of redoing the rules for AA 1940.

Or are you also suggesting that there was sufficient playtesting for 1940? When obviously there was not.

Come on Krieg, don’t defend the indefensible especially not having enough pieces in 1914!

You guys really did not run out of pieces nor experience the tiny areas on the Wetsern Front?

Did not one of you suggest to ditch Africa in favor of a more expansive Europe?

Just how extensive is your playtesting when the problems like 1940 and 1914 are readily apparent upon release.

I’d sure like to know and I’m sure others would too.

This is probably imposed on Larry and his chums by WOTC; the culture of secrecy precludes a wider testing group due to paranoid fears of copying.

I’m sure eveyone here would be very happy to help test the game before initial release, but that isn’t how it works.

Nevertheless I still find it hard to believe nobody thought the German/Austrian movement to the front would be a problem; I could see this before playing the game at all. Perhaps the test group all being well known to each other means they sometimes overlook flaws obvious to fresh eyes.

awfull rules: as in the real war, all fighting takes place in allied controlled territory (except in middle-east and africa…)

So the Central Powers are punished for being successful; they have to fight much further away from their supply centres than the Allies, a handicap that modern transport had neutralised from the American Civil War onwards.

At least we no longer have the absurdity of being able to build units in captured complexes, but this actually exaggerates the transport problem, so the two issues needed to be addressed together.

Hey Krieg the last thing I am doing is taking any kind of shot at you or Larry. This game has meant a lot to me and the many people I have introduced to. My 4 favorite things (family,sports teams(Jets,Blues,Notre dame),fishing and Axis and Allies). I only wish to open the game like I did with say AA europe the first version and be captivated by the pieces and board and how they work with the great set of rules that Larry and you built. I am not unlike you or Larry in the fact that I want these games to be the best they can be so that I am playing them and passing them on to my son in the years to come. My friends and I wore out the board on the original and played the first expansions a lot. I want these latest versions to be like that. I offered to help playtest in the future with my group not to insult you but to help.(Also thought it would be pretty cool). I plan on using these tournament rules as the permanent rules for the game. Thanks for your efforts to this game and this community.

@Shakespeare:

Krieghund

Are you actually saying there was enough playtesting in 1914?

I’d really like to know your opinion on this.

Unfortunate, since I’m not going to offer it.

@Shakespeare:

Especially after we all indeed, we all “had to go through” the contentious months long

Alpha version 1,  Alpha version 2, Alpha version 3; no wait this is the real Alpha set of rules process of redoing the rules for AA 1940.

Really?  I seem to remember your personal contribution consisting of little more than complaining and rabble-rousing.

@Shakespeare:

Come on Krieg, don’t defend the indefensible especially not having enough pieces in 1914!

I have never commented on this issue, so don’t put words in my mouth.

@GoSanchez6:

Hey Krieg the last thing I am doing is taking any kind of shot at you or Larry. This game has meant a lot to me and the many people I have introduced to. My 4 favorite things (family,sports teams(Jets,Blues,Notre dame),fishing and Axis and Allies). I only wish to open the game like I did with say AA europe the first version and be captivated by the pieces and board and how they work with the great set of rules that Larry and you built. I am not unlike you or Larry in the fact that I want these games to be the best they can be so that I am playing them and passing them on to my son in the years to come. My friends and I wore out the board on the original and played the first expansions a lot. I want these latest versions to be like that. I offered to help playtest in the future with my group not to insult you but to help.(Also thought it would be pretty cool). I plan on using these tournament rules as the permanent rules for the game. Thanks for your efforts to this game and this community.

Thanks for this.  I didn’t mean to imply that I was taking offense, but was simply pointing out that this isn’t an “alpha” version of the game, so it shouldn’t be viewed in that light.

Hey Krieg, always keep in mind that people critiquing A&A means that they love A&A. If they didn’t they wouldn’t play it and they wouldn’t care.

I always do.  Criticism is always welcome; berating, not so much.

@Krieghund:

I always do.  Criticism is always welcome; berating, not so much.

+1

The following question will not be used as a follow-up critique: I’m just wondering, cause I’m curious by nature, how the game gets play-tested. You guys have a small or big team; do you play a game or two a day; does that cause headaches (literally. if i play 10 hours i have a guaranteed headache; how long is the creation/ play-testing time frame;  how fun or tedious is it; what the correction process is; how do you start play testing initially (what map do you use, units, etc.) etc…

Kreig

I complained about the various Alpha’s becz I thought the whole Alpha process was a joke.
You and Larry “fixed” 1940 with a sledgehammer rather than some simple elegant adjustments.

You still did not address the questions I asked about the 1914 playtesting about the number of units and about Africa.

And why not address the question I had about wether or not you believe there was enough playtesting for 1914?

I mean come on and try to be accountable. You like the the “Official Answers” aspect of your association with Axis Allies, 
But you don’t want to accept responsibility.

Your answers seem to indicate you have much in common with the IRS and The AG’s office and the State Dept.
Where no one knows nothing, like Sgt Shultz; and no one has any accountability.

Well, maybe I’m alone in liking the Alpha process for 1940…  It allowed extensive playtesting by A&A lovers everywhere to come up with a fairly balanced 2nd edition.  My only gripe is there’s no ‘upgrade’ or ‘expansion’ pack to buy for those that had the 1st edition instead of buying all new games.

@Shakespeare:

Kreig

I complained about the various Alpha’s becz I thought the whole Alpha process was a joke.
You and Larry “fixed” 1940 with a sledgehammer rather than some simple elegant adjustments.

You still did not address the questions I asked about the 1914 playtesting about the number of units and about Africa.

And why not address the question I had about wether or not you believe there was enough playtesting for 1914?

I mean come on and try to be accountable. You like the the “Official Answers” aspect of your association with Axis Allies, 
But you don’t want to accept responsibility.

Your answers seem to indicate you have much in common with the IRS and The AG’s office and the State Dept.
Where no one knows nothing, like Sgt Shultz; and no one has any accountability.

This is not the complain to Krieg about 1940/1914 playtesting thread, its the potential 1914 Tournament Rules thread… lol…
I don’t see the problem with the multiple Alphas anyway. The way I see it, there are now multiple set ups and rules to play by, even if some may be considered “unbalanced.” I found it pretty fun to run into a new set up and rules to play with my group.

Anyway, I should have a game at the end of this month. I’ll post a report on HGD afterward.
I’m pretty excited about the collapse rules, but I think the check for collapse phase going first in a player’s turn is harsh. I think it should happen at the end of their turn, so they at least have a chance to prevent it from happening… But, oh well. I guess I’ll have to see how my group can try to avoid collapse, even with it being the first phase of a player’s turn.

@ch0senfktard:

This is not the complain to Krieg about 1940/1914 playtesting thread, its the potential 1914 Tournament Rules thread… lol…

Good point.  This thread has strayed far off topic.

Atease, if you’d like to post your question in a new thread, I’ll answer as best I can without violating confidentiality agreements.