Austrian Strategies

@BJCard:

If Austria takes Romania and then Russia hits Romania… whats to stop Germany from taking Poland hard and now Russians are out of position with respect to Germany.

The problem with this is that Austria cannot invade Romania with enough forces to take it and hold off the Russian counteroffensive. In most cases the territory will be contested and when R1 comes around the Russians will take it back with ease. Why waste the ground units on a territory that you can’t hold to the end of R1? Better I think to hold off until you and the Turks can counterattack in strength AFTER the Germans have invaded Poland and put the Russians on the defensive.

Also, if the Russians are anticipating a German offensive into Poland, they may be reluctant to send more than a few units into Romania which mean that an Austro-Turkish offensive into Romania would be all the better.

If you don’t take Romania Russia literally cant make a single offensive move on its first turn. (unless it attacks Mesopotamia like a psycho.

If you hold off, everything they can attack will be too powerful for them to hit.

Russia’s options are:
A) Attack Romania if Austria-Hungary did
B) Activate Romania if it is empty.

That’s it. They can’t attack anywhere else. So you are safe.
Waiting a turn preserves your forces from being exposed to counterattack in Romania on R1 and instead exposes them to a full blown attack of near 30 units WITH air supremacy if you build a fighter on AH1. Then on R2 they are faced with tough choices.

Push back in Romania, and then get hit by Ottomans THEN Austria-Hungary  AGAIN.
All the while a huge German force in Poland is ready to move.

@Auztria:

I agree Austria-Hungary doesn’t have the resources to contest three fronts, which is why it’s vital to strike first and strike hard in the Balkans

But Austria dose not have the resources to hit Serbia and Romania, while having a force capable of defending Galicia for the Russian as well. Austria is strong, but needs to be handled well on it’s first few turns or disaster will ensue and attacking Romania is one of the way to do that, did you read what happened in Mr. Harris’s walk through when he did just what you’re proposing? By the end of R1 Romania wasn’t even contested anymore, Austria’s forces in the region had be greatly weakened and the Russians not only had the initiative but were in a position to threaten Austria from Serbia, Budapest and Galicia.

Also consider that the rules require Austria to attack Serbia on A1, this limits what moves Austria can make, were this not the case an attack on Romania would be advisable but given the restriction the rules place on them it isn’t

@Auztria:

Attacking Venice AH1 will only thrust insufficient forces into Italy before reinforcements arrive. Only an idiot Italian would launch an offensive into Tyrolia or Trieste I1; far better to amass the assault forces for a crippling blow on AH2.

The necessary forces for an overpowering attack are already in position to attack Italy on A1, why not seize the initiative here? Italy is the weakest of the Allied powers and attacking on A1 will place them on the back foot right from the get go. With an economy of 14IPC reduced to 12 by Austria’s attack Italy will be scrambling to hold on. Also, by attacking Venice, you give Austria the advantage of creating interior lines and concentrating forces, better to have a contested Venice then having to spread you defensive forces between two territories, while Italy builds up to strike one or the other and their will.

@Auztria:

Larry’s failure in Romania was because he attacked Venice.

I don’t follow, the forces arrayed against Venice are either two or three spaces from Romania and wouldn’t be able to help attack it on A1 or be in place to help defend anything the Russians could attack on R1, so how dose this hurt Austria? If anything getting the jump on Italy and weakening their already frail economy and their army on A1 is to Austria’s and Germany’s benefit. In most of my test scenarios Italy is left in one defending infantry and Austria with nearly 10 infantry and all 4 artillery. Italy’s only response is to send the 6 infantry and 2 artillery from Piedmont and the one additional infantry from Tuscany to try an stall the Austrians, but this force will take more damage then it will be able to deal to the defending Austrians. Italy will be put in a desperate trying to hold on while Austria can reinforce itself at it’s leisure.

Italy’s goal in life is to annoy Austria-Hungary. It can’t phase any other CP so turning Venice into a moonscape is in your best interests. Just because they are small doesn’t mean they wont be annoying.

@Auztria:

Yes, and on A2 you invade and Venice becomes that moonscape. But Venice should be the furthest object of permanent Italian conquests, at least until Russia is dealt with.

The problem I see with this is that on A1, Italy will have 6 infantry and 2 artillery in Venice, but on I1 a player with any sense will move to reinforce this position, so that by A2, Austria will be facing an Italian force with at least 13 infantry and 4 artillery, a force bigger then the combined force in Tyrolia and Trieste. A reinforcement column of 7 infantry and 2 artillery in Tuscany will be able to counter any moves into Venice by then end of I1. Also consider that Italy can land an infantry and artillery from Libya to Albania on I1, boost their economy to 16 by the end of their first turn, and have a small but potent defense force sitting on Austria’s flank. This force will require immediate attention, it cannot be ignored for long. By then end of I1 they will have an additional 3 infantry and 1 artillery in Rome and 17IPC’s to spend on I2, meaning they could very rapidly overrun Austria’s defensive.

I have not seen you mention what, if any, reinforcements are being sent to the Italian front by Austrians on A1 to be able to overcome this on A2, if anything it seems your implying that all of Austria’s attention should be on Russia. The 12 infantry and 4 artillery spread between the two territories of Trieste and Tyrolia are not enough to invade Venice on A2 without reinforcement on A1, and they are not enough to withstand and Italian offensive on I2 without reinforcement.

@Auztria:

If you can’t see the reinforcements for Italy, or an attack on Albania, I advise you to go back to the first page and actually take a look at my strategy write-up for Austria.

It dosn’t matter, if your plan does not involve an attack on Italy one, then it will not work

Why? Italy can’t attack you and you are busy wiping out other enemies. Bu waiting, Austria can hit Italy with overwhelming force.

The more the CPs wait to attack, the tougher going it shall be because the Allies make more cumulative IPC’s.  Since conquering territories will be slow, you’d better start early.  We’ll see how the game is once we all get it.

Italy has NO other opponent. AH is it’s mortal foe. You have to lock down Venice, not because it can hit you, but to condense your front line down to one territory.
No need to push farther, just dig in.

Romania is not as important because russia has many other weak spots.
If you instead stage a massive army in Galicia, you threaten Poland,  Ukraine and Romania.
You force Russia to question your intentions.

After hearing Flashmans’ game report, I’m starting to come around to hitting Venice hard and not hitting Romania.  If Russia commits to Romania, then hit it with Austria and Ottoman Bulgaria.  If the Russians did this, presumably it would give Germany an opening in Poland.

Yeah, as the Flash report showed Austria has to attack south by rule (Serbia), it doesn’t have the strength to mount and sustain attacks to both the east (Romania) and the west (Venice) on its first turn. If they do (as Flash did) they just have two very weak fronts going that will halt the CP advances because they are spread to thin. They have to pick which side to go offensive round one, and Italy is the better strategic target (as Oz has pointed out). It cuts down that front to one territory, they can get German reinforcements if needed, and Italy gets less income. Romania (east) will still be there turn two. If the Russians stack it you can double hit them making it much easier for the Germans to gain advantage over the Russians. If they activate Romania with a nominal force you can crush it w/Austria, and reinforce w/Turks. Russia will be hesitant to counter attack w/Germans coming across from the north (could get cut off).

In the bigger picture I think the CP as a whole must come up w/strat early on to dig in on one front to set-up defenses at strangle points (in enemy territory if possible), and go offensive on the other. If they don’t then the CP as a whole will see the same thing as A/H did, two weak fronts collapsing. I think they need to pick a side, and roll with it, but also take advantage of tactical errors on the other side if they get a chance.

It makes sense for A/H to gain ground in Venice round one to dig in. Then being patient waiting for the Turks to catch up to triple hit the Russians starting on the second turn (Germany will probably have a foot hold in Poland). The way the game is set up it is much harder to attack when multiple powers are def together. Russia is pretty much alone w/only minimal English support that may not come in time (there won’t be 10 English ftrs def Moscow in this game LOL). I like how Flash attacked the Brit navy to attempt to slow down British reinforcements coming into France, or the Russian north through Scandinavia BTW.

Well, you don’t have to attack Venice if you don’t want- you can control the front with two Austrian territories- one lightly held and one heavily held.  The Italians can’t attack the lightly held territory if your Austrian stack in the heavily held territory can now take Venice.

You could be defensive on Italy and go after Russia first along with Germany.  Without the eastern front, all available forces can now go one way- west (maybe south).

Your right, but if your intent is to go hard for Russia then you would be def two territories on the Italian front instead of one territory that you can dig in (Venice). Now they can contest your A/H lands where you hold the line there instead of the strangle point on Italian land. You would be giving up income instead of the Italians IMO. IDK, maybe I’m off here, but I would rather dig in on the enemy lands on my terms as the CP, and force them to bulk up to overwhelm me (where I could just retreat back if I want to). It isn’t going to be easy for the Italians to come up with the power to take me out in Venice (just looking to keep it contested), and I’m not sure the French will be able to help them out.

I think the A/H could go either way, as long as they don’t try to go both ways turn 1. To me it just seems more advantageous to hit Venice over Romania on the first turn, I can’t wait to try it out. It very well could prove to be a worthy strat to hit Romania first, not having the ability to try stuff out yet. That part is coming though hopefully Mon or Tues.