J1 DOW doomed for failure

Germany has to deny the NO SZ125 but Japan can deny it by taking out Amur.

Ran some numbers last night. If the USSR buys an additional fighter, with 4 bombers Germany still has a positive expected value from bombing G3. To make it negative, USSR needs to buy two fighters. USSR doesn’t want to spend money on fighters so I guess it is still worthwhile for Germany to threaten it. Could conceivably be worthwhile to attack even with a negative expected value because USSR’s money is worth more than Germany’s. The problem is that if you lose a bomber or two, do you have enough to hit it next turn?

@WILD:

When doing a J1 attack I also sink the Hawaiian fleet. I hit the fleet with a couple dd, sub and 4 planes (2 ftrs/2tacs). I then NCM 2 carriers, cruiser and bb to Wake to pick up my surviving air units. Make sure a dd survives the Haw battle to block out the US ships from hitting your fleet at Wake (leave a few ftrs on Japan in case you need to NCM some air in to replace losses). US can try an ill advised air sweep on your Wake fleet, but if you want to play it safe take Wake Isl too. This will give your air units a place to land so your carriers and BB can soak up the first three hits.

I really like this (especially with balance mode because Wake denies USA an NO), and I would also add a bomber that lands on Marshall Islands.  The problem is all those planes are not in Kwangsi so you lose the threat of pounding an airstrike on Szechwan or Burma, and you might even have a hard time at Yunnan.  You do set the USA way back but you lose initiative on the mainland.

@Karl7:

@Talleyrand19:

Been following this thread as best as possible so sorry if this was already mentioned and I missed it…

But what happens if Allies spend most of their money on the Atlantic with only a few capital ships in the Pacific to join up with Anzac. The Atlantic money goes to transports and capital ships and then tanks and infantry. With England’s help, you hit Spain and Gibraltar  (for the naval base). Then every single turn the US can land more stuff and set up a nonstop funnel. If Russia does its job then axis should not be able to keep up on both fronts. If Germany sent its Dark Skies bombers to try to stop the funnel, then fine you can wipe each other out and still land more US troops the next turn.

My friends and I have done this to each other and the Spain landing always overwhelms the Axis eventually. …

What have you all experienced when trying this?

Yes, this is a good strategy.  The weak point is then the Germans blitz into the middle east, ignoring Moscow.  They can get an economic advantage and then just sit back and outbuild the allies.

Perhaps have Iraq and the Persian territories be treated as True Neutral, just give the UK and USSR extra units to make up the potential difference.

Your point is good. The US are not properly represented. But maybe just giving the US the War Bond, Improved Shipyard and Increase Factory Production tech (All 3 when at war) could help to make the US more historical without breaking too much the game. I’ll try it in my next games.

I see what you guys are saying and I agree. I’ve been kicking around the idea to replace the $5 NO for Japanese control of Borneo, Celebes, Java and Sumatra with the following:

$5 for Japanese control of Okinawa, Formosa, Iwo Jima, Marianas, Palau, Caroline Islands and Marshall Islands. This occurs when Japan is at war with the Western Allies. So if UK and/or ANZAC declare war on Japan, with USA still neutral, then Japan will collect this NO.
I’ve also modified the $5 NO for Japanese control of Midway, Wake, Guam, Solomon Islands and Gilbert Islands. I changed it to $1 for control of each island.

I also removed the US NO of $10 for US control of Eastern US, Central US and Western US because I think that falls in the same category as the DEI NO. The continental US is worth $42 to the US all together, has all their main manufacturing plants and includes two Victory Cities, one of which is their capital. That’s more than enough incentive to not lose any of those three territories. However, I didn’t want to just take away US NO money, so I replaced it with the following:

$1 each for Allied control of the following: Midway, Wake Island, Guam, Marshall Islands, Caroline Islands, Palau, Marianas, Iwo Jima, Okinawa and Formosa. This occurs when US is at war with Japan.

So you see, there is still the possibility for the US to make the full $10 in NO money, plus 3 of the Japanese Islands are worth $1 which will be an extra bonus. Also, since 3 of the islands are already US owned, the US can still collect $3 when at war with Japan but before their offensive gets moving.
I thought that might do something to get a little more action in these valueless islands. I wonder if I ought to change Japan’s because once the US is in the war, Japan’s NO is really easy to disrupt because the Marshall Islands are close to the US and they are unguarded. Do you think that I should remove the Marshalls from Japan’s NO?

@Spendo02:

Much of that assertion is based on play testing of the Allies moving to defend Hawaii in the first round.

Obviously that changes if you withdraw because the only trade would be the starting fleet off Hawaii, which easily translates to a strong consolidated navy off of Western US.

That is why I posed the question regarding what would be an Allied response to a J1 DOW that stages in SZ6 and paves the way to sack Honolulu on J2 as I was not sure if that would be an experienced US player’s response….

…My standard play has been to defend Hawaii at all costs which included Anzac’s involvement (to see what the board looks like) while purchasing US1 SS and Bombers.  I never considered the US option to give it up and consolidate - which appears to be a better and stronger play…

We have a few regular and experienced players and now that we have played Global enough times America’s response to Japan positioning it’s fleet in range of Hawaii is always to just run away and let them have it.

Bringing back the Pacific fleet is always the stronger move because if Japan keeps sending fleet to Hawaii then it’s going the wrong way. Not being in striking distance of DEI and India means that the UK will start slowly building a non-trivial fleet of ships and will be making 30+ IPCs.

Meanwhile America is out pretty much nothing but a few IPCs and can just casually build boats and watch. The second Japan leaves they just retake Hawaii with almost no effort.

no, russia,  is not at war in europe.  They can only attack if they are at war with germ or italy.

The Japanese advance through Russia is annoying, but it very much opens the door to shut Japan down and stall the Japanese advance.

You’ve got two options.  The first of which is to sink the Japanese fleet and take control of SZ6 to prevent Japan from ferrying over units to the mainland while convoying Japan’s eventual income to zero and stopping the flood into Russia.  You can trade your ships for Japanese ships early, sacrificing carriers by absorbing two hits to allow your aircraft to continue to sink ships in SZ6 (which of course means their demise too). Once the fleet is crippled, Japan is going to be stuck putting out a DD or CR at best each round in SZ6 - easily sunk by US DD/SS.  By Japan ignoring income and making a bee line to Moscow, its most likely going to lose the fight in China as I’d expect India to DOW and stack up the Burma Road to get Chinese artillery out, nullifying the Japanese advantage over China.  Losing Chinese income, the DEI income and getting convoyed, Japan’s going to be making less than 10 IPC/round once the US DOW occurs.

The other option is to ignore Japan and just build the US to land on Gib on Round 4 and then onto Norway/Italy/the French Minors on Round 5.  A reinforcement of British units- a combination of infantry and aircraft can help prevent a German counter for the US landing.  The only hope is that you put enough of a threat on Germany that it has to reverse its economic spending getting units into the fight for Moscow so that Berlin has to be defended instead of a factory of Mech supporting what I’d expect to be Armor purchases that were made earlier.  India can also then ignore China and start churning out Armor/Mech and start marching toward Egypt/Afghan/Southern Russia.  Japan will not be able to hold territories near Moscow for long with India spending from India1 forward on a march in that direction.  Particularly as India claims all the DEI to pump its income into the 30’s.  I’d let Anzac just build SS every round and continue to convoy/harass Japanese territories to further compound Japan’s problem of spending to get units towards Moscow whilst being harassed via convoy everywhere.

Basically the Japanese making the Moscow Rush equates to a boring Pacific Theater and UK, India, US all converging on Europe.  Italy can easily be convoyed out of the game with a combination of SS purchases out of S.Africa, India and UK.  Japan has an 8 roundish march to Moscow (unless theres a suicide aircraft punch).  Germany is 7ish rounds out itself.  If rounds 5, 6 and 7 equate to Allied landings in Europe, Germany has a tough decision to face with a convoy’ed Italy, an over-extended Japan and a split economy defending Europe and advancing on Moscow.

Realize you still may lose Moscow, but with the Allies entrenched in Europe with a full economic investment, India may be able to reclaim Moscow for the Russians as Germany has to reverse course instead of swinging south towards Egypt for the win.