Kcdzim is correct.
You don’t “declare war” on neutral territories - you simply attack them.� Attacking a neutral territory immediately converts that territory to the opposite alliance.� All of the other neutral territories remain neutral (but become unfriendly to you), and you still can’t fly over them as long as they remain so.
wait. here is what i mean.�� if germany attacked spain and didn’t conquer it, can RUSSIA land aircraft there on it’s immediately following turn?
Yes, as Spain is now part of the Allies.
so based on this, there is a difference between a true neutral that has been attacked by the axis and the rest of the true neutrals. the one directly attacked immediately can be landed in by allied planes (no land unit taking and subsequent turn required). the rest of the true neutrals then become pro-allied neutrals immediately (which means air cannot land in them until they are activated by land units, and even then, not on the turn on which they were activated).
now, the final piece to the puzzle… a territory that starts the game pro allied (can we say yugo), that the axis attacks with a hit and run and leaves say, 4 infantry remaining. can the allies now land planes directly onto yugo? or is this something that is specific only to a TRUE neutral that has been attacked but not conquered?
OK, so on G1 Germany invades Yugoslavia.
Say they hit and run, leaving 1 surviving infantry in Yugoslavia.
Before the noncombat movement phase, Yugoslavia is no longer neutral. It is an alliied territory, but not controlled by any of the allies. Germany could fly aircraft over Yugoslavia on G1 non-combat movement (doesn’t help them, but that’s not the point. The point is, they can)Yugoslavia is now considered a part of the Allies (but no one gets its income). It’s not neutral anymore, so anyone can fly over it just as you fly over any Axis or Ally’s territory during normal game play.
On UK1, the UK COULD land aircraft in Yugoslavia. It is now friendly to the allies.
As long as Yugoslavia is not conquered by an Axis power, an Allied power could activate it by getting a ground unit there. They would then convert the surviving infantry to their own infantry, take control of the territory, increasing IPC income by 2 for that Allied power.
ah as i was writing the question you were answering it… :lol:
so if the allies leave yugo infantry alive after a hit and run, the brits could actually send in a transport, land on yugo, activate the infantry, AND land aircraft in the territory. INTERESTING.
i question if it is clear that aircraft can land in the territory until it is entered by allied land units.� let me go back to see what krieg said again…
Yes, it can, and you’re right with your previous paragraph.
The rules say “The territory remains uncontrolled, but units from the side it’s now allied with can move into it and take control of it”
If those units are LAND units, you take control of it. �But “units” means ANY unit, as Krieghund has repeatedly and adamantly explained to us before. �It’s just if you move a LAND unit in, then you take control. �But you can land air there like the UK and ANZ can land air on Dutch territories.
You’re right, friendly neutral is not the same as allied neutral.
An attacked neutral is a friendly neutral and is now a friendly territory, that none of the controllable powers control.
Like Yugoslavia is its own nation now, with no income or production capability. �It’s independent, but is now a part of the Alliance once it’s attacked.
so if the allies leave yugo infantry alive after a hit and run, the brits could actually send in a transport, land on yugo, activate the infantry, AND land aircraft in the territory. INTERESTING.
YES
OK, so on G1 Germany invades Yugoslavia.
Say they hit and run, leaving 1 surviving infantry in Yugoslavia.
Before the noncombat movement phase, Yugoslavia is no longer neutral. �It is an alliied territory, but not controlled by any of the allies. �Germany could fly aircraft over Yugoslavia on G1 non-combat movement (doesn’t help them, but that’s not the point. �The point is, they can)Yugoslavia is now considered a part of the Allies (but no one gets its income). �It’s not neutral anymore, so anyone can fly over it just as you fly over any Axis or Ally’s territory during normal game play.
On UK1, the UK COULD land aircraft in Yugoslavia. �It is now friendly to the allies.
As long as Yugoslavia is not conquered by an Axis power, an Allied power could activate it by getting a ground unit there. �They would then convert the surviving infantry to their own infantry, take control of the territory, increasing IPC income by 2 for that Allied power.ah as i was writing the question you were answering it…� :lol:
so if the allies leave yugo infantry alive after a hit and run, the brits could actually send in a transport, land on yugo, activate the infantry, AND land aircraft in the territory.� INTERESTING.
you know what, i just noticed players can modify or delete posts from this FAQ… why is that? you wouldn’t want someone to come in and start deleting valuable posts! :-o
An attacked neutral is a friendly neutral and is now a friendly territory, that none of the controllable powers control.
Once it’s attacked, it’s not neutral at all. It is allied with the side opposite the side that attacked it. This is important, because the restrictions of a neutral territory no longer apply to it.
here is part of why i’m confused, the rules are not precise in their wording on this point…
“If the attack upon the neutral territory is unsuccessful (the territory is not captured), it’s no longer considered neutral and becomes part of the alliance opposing the power that attacked it. For example, if Germany attacked Yugoslavia but failed to capture it, after the attack Yugoslavia would join the Allies. Any remaining defending units stay in the territory, but can’t move. The territory remains uncontrolled, but units from the side it’s now allied with can move into it and take control of it and its remaining units in the same way as if it were a friendly neutral.”
this is a tricky one… i THOUGHT “friendly neutral” in this sentence should actually read “pro-allied or pro-axis neutral”. BUT friendly neutral is actually a special status, which means any neutral that has been attacked but not conquered… so to me the wording is misleading. it says “in the same way as if it were a friendly neutral” when it should say, it now BECOMES a friendly neutral, which means x, y, and z…
RIGHT???
this is a tricky one… i THOUGHT “friendly neutral” in this sentence should actually read “pro-allied or pro-axis neutral”.
Yes, that’s what it means. That’s what a friendly neutral is, if you’re on the side that it’s “pro”.
BUT friendly neutral is actually a special status, which means any neutral that has been attacked but not conquered…
No, it isn’t. See my last post.
An attacked neutral is a friendly neutral and is now a friendly territory, that none of the controllable powers control.
Once it’s attacked, it’s not neutral at all.� It is allied with the side opposite the side that attacked it.� This is important, because the restrictions of a neutral territory no longer apply to it.
based on this, the word neutral would no longer apply to yugo after a german hit and run. it would have to have a different term than “friendly neutral”… so i think my understanding is correct that friendly neutral is the same as pro-axis or pro-allied neutral. after ANY neutral is attacked, it takes on the status of friendly territory? perhaps or maybe a better term, which means it is now joined with one side for all intents and purposes except for income and control of it’s standing army (if any remains). that standing army will be activated by whichever friendly power enters it first with a land unit, and that power will then also receive the territory income.
Exactly.
maybe we need to call them FRIENDLY, but previously neutral, territories. FBPN
so any attacked neutral if not conquered, becomes a FBPN territory. if a true neutral (or more than one) is/are attacked for the first time, the ones actually attacked become FBPN territories if not conquered. all other true neutral territories become friendly neutrals at that moment.
Yep
Good idea to have a special term for neutrals that have been attacked but not conquered. Because it is a unique status, as you have discovered.
key point… you can fly over a FBPN territory with aircraft like any other hostile territory but you cannot fly over a neutral with aircraft during combat move unless and only if you are attacking it with all said aircraft.
I have seen it in TripleA, so the question is in Alpha 3+
Can UK in NCM move a transport with only a AAgun to sz 86 than unload the transport to activate Brazil with only a AAgun?
I have seen it in TripleA, so the question is in Alpha 3+
Can UK in NCM move a transport with only a AAgun to sz 86 than unload the transport to activate Brazil with only a AAgun?
No. Lone AA guns are not sufficient to take control of a territory. It must be infantry, artillery, mech, or tank.
I have seen it in TripleA, so the question is in Alpha 3+
Can UK in NCM move a transport with only a AAgun to sz 86 than unload the transport to activate Brazil with only a AAgun?
No. Lone AA guns are not sufficient to take control of a territory. It must be infantry, artillery, mech, or tank.
I disagree. Where in the rulebook is this mentioned? This is a quote from the Europe 1940 2e rulebook (bolding by me):
@Europe:
Friendly neutrals may not be attacked, and air units may not fly over them. They can be moved into (but not through) as a noncombat move by land units of a power that is at war (see Noncombat Move,” page 22).
AAA are land units. These rules and the AAA rules do not disallow AAA from doing this.
It’s not friendly - it’s a friendly neutral. There is a difference, in that it is still neutral. A friendly territory is one that is controlled by you or another member of your alliance. A friendly neutral does not meet that requirement.
There is a procedure for converting a friendly neutral territory into a friendly territory, which involves moving a land unit with an attack value into it. Until then, no other unit may be moved into it, as it is still neutral (though friendly neutral).
You may be right that it isn’t clear in the rulebook, but you’re still oh so wrong! Krieghund is the rulebook, and this is what he has told us.
AA cannot activate a friendly neutral by itself.
AAE40 2nd Edition Rulebook, page 28:
Only infantry, artillery, mechanized infantry, and tanks can capture hostile territories or convert friendly neutrals.
Sure enough!
Very easy to miss that one spot, though…
P-Unit has a good point that you should be able to read about that under “friendly neutrals” or under the details for “AAA guns” :-)
But it is in there! Read all 41 pages and memorize every word of them! :wink:
