UK Gov't in exile Discussion - Delta 1

special forces

@Young:

The amount of income the exiled UK gets is a wrinkle that shouln’t be difficult to iron out.

And so it should be. Especially with the rule that USA jumps into war when London falls.

Young Grasshopper

@special:

@Young:

The amount of income the exiled UK gets is a wrinkle that shouln’t be difficult to iron out.

And so it should be. Especially with the rule that USA jumps into war when London falls.

You may be right, gotta do what we can to keep sealion a viable option.

Jennifer

@Young:

@special:

@Young:

The amount of income the exiled UK gets is a wrinkle that shouln’t be difficult to iron out.

And so it should be. Especially with the rule that USA jumps into war when London falls.

You may be right, gotta do what we can to keep sealion a viable option.

Use the Alpha 3 map, but add the German NO for London again and it’s not only viable, but recommended as far as I am concerned.

Young Grasshopper

@Cmdr:

@Young:

@special:

@Young:

The amount of income the exiled UK gets is a wrinkle that shouln’t be difficult to iron out.

And so it should be. Especially with the rule that USA jumps into war when London falls.

You may be right, gotta do what we can to keep sealion a viable option.

Use the Alpha 3 map, but add the German NO for London again and it’s not only viable, but recommended as far as I am concerned.

I will be suggesting the entire Alpha+3 set up next poll, with the AA Gun rule, but is sealion still viable with out the SBR rules as well?

Jennifer

Yes it is. The average 12 damage to England was just icing on the cake, it was not the eggs that bound the cake together.

I think we have had a good discussion about Government in Exile and I have put together two second drafts of the rule that I think take everyone’s suggestions into account. I am going to post them here so you can suggest any more tweaks that you think are necessary, and then have a final Binding Vote to decide which one to use. The accepted rule will appear in the Political Situation section of the Delta 1 rulebook and will become the law of the land.

Here they are:

OPTION A.

UK Europe government in exile
The first time London is captured by an axis power, the capitol of UK Europe moves to Ottawa, Canada. The axis power that captures London seizes all IPCs currently held by UK Europe. The United States and Soviet union immediately join the Allies if they are not yet at war. Beginning at the Collect Income phase of its next turn, and as long as the government is in exile, it will collect income for all UK controlled territories within Canada. The government in exile may mobilize units only in Canadian industrial complexes.

Because trade between Canada and Great Britain is halted when London is occupied by the axis, sea zone 106 ceases to be a convoy raid zone anytime that London is axis controlled.

Once per game, at the Collect Income phase of a turn when the UK government is in exile and London has been liberated, the Government in exile may return to London; or it may choose to remain in Canada. When it returns to London, the UK Europe government will collect income for all UK controlled territories on the Europe map and on the following turn it may mobilize units in any UK controlled industrial complex on the Europe map.

OPTION B.

UK Europe government in exile
The first time London is captured by an axis power, the capitol of UK Europe moves to Quebec, Canada. The axis power that captures London seizes all IPCs currently held by UK Europe. The United States and Soviet union immediately join the Allies if they are not yet at war. Beginning at the Collect Income phase of its next turn, and as long as the UK government is in exile, it will collect income for all UK controlled territories on the Europe map. The government in exile may mobilize units only in Canadian industrial complexes.

Also, the first time London is captured by an axis power, unless Scotland is axis controlled, it will become a pro-allies neutral territory with a standing army of 4 infantry, plus any UK land units present in Scotland at the time London is captured by the axis.

Because trade between Canada and Great Britain is halted when London is occupied by the axis, sea zone 106 ceases to be a convoy raid zone anytime that London is axis controlled. Because trade between Great Britain and its former colonies is also halted, sea zones 109 and 119 cease to be convoy raid zones anytime London is axis controlled. To reflect trade between Great Britain and Germany, sea zone 110 becomes a convoy raid zone anytime London is axis controlled.

Once per game, at the Collect Income phase of a turn when the UK government is in exile and London has been liberated, the Government in exile may return to London; or it may choose to remain in Canada. When it returns to London, the UK Europe government will continue to collect income for all UK controlled territories on the Europe map and on the following turn it may mobilize units in any UK controlled industrial complex on the Europe map.

Young Grasshopper

Vance, special forces and I have found a lot of problems with the French units becoming German, could you please delete if from option B as that aspect is badly broken. Thanks.

OK. Vichy is gone.

JimmyHat

@Young:

Sounds like a headache trying to keep track of what’s in limbo and what’s collectable, as for America, sounds like their on their own, because all the UK will be able to contribute is a single transport each round, I thought the Government in exile rule was being created to allow the UK player to still have a fun game after London falls, spending $7 is close to not spending at all, that’s just my personal opinion, you gotta go with what the majority feels however the out come. The good news is, we all agree on the foundation of the rule.

The main issue I see with having Canada control all UK territories is that then the other allies(read US) cannot capture and control former UK territories. Every time the allies liberate a territory it will return to Canadas coffers even though UK is conquered. Keeping it limited to Canada means US can still reconquer Egypt, or Scotland.

I do see Canada at 7ipcs as not really being able to do /anything/. They may need more income, not sure.

UK starts the game with territories worth 28 IPCs. If they lose UK (6) and Scotland (2), they are down to 20. That’s really not all that much. That income might also be reduced somewhat if we leave z106 alone (i.e. now there will be ships coming to Canada FROM Africa and middle east). Also, some of their income would go to build a minor IC for Ontario if they want to mobilize troops instead of expensive naval and air units.

Given that Neutral Blocks may turn out to be a major pro-axis change (i.e. vulnerable Caucasus), I would go for Option B if all the complicated sea zone changes are removed. This makes it easier to play too. So I am going to put that up as Option C. Anyone is welcome to suggest other options so please feel free.

OPTION C.

UK Europe government in exile
The first time London is captured by an axis power, the capitol of UK Europe moves to Quebec, Canada. The axis power that captures London seizes all IPCs currently held by UK Europe. The United States and Soviet union immediately join the Allies if they are not yet at war. Beginning at the Collect Income phase of its next turn, and as long as the UK government is in exile, it will collect income for all UK controlled territories on the Europe map. The government in exile may mobilize units only in Canadian industrial complexes.

Also, the first time London is captured by an axis power, unless Scotland is axis controlled, it will become a pro-allies neutral territory with a standing army of 4 infantry, plus any UK land units present in Scotland at the time London is captured by the axis.

Once per game, at the Collect Income phase of a turn when the UK government is in exile and London has been liberated, the Government in exile may return to London; or it may choose to remain in Canada. When it returns to London, the UK Europe government will continue to collect income for all UK controlled territories on the Europe map and on the following turn it may mobilize units in any UK controlled industrial complex on the Europe map.

And just to be good and thorough, here is an option with the Scotland idea removed.

OPTION D.

UK Europe government in exile
The first time London is captured by an axis power, the capitol of UK Europe moves to Quebec, Canada. The axis power that captures London seizes all IPCs currently held by UK Europe. The United States and Soviet union immediately join the Allies if they are not yet at war. Beginning at the Collect Income phase of its next turn, and as long as the UK government is in exile, it will collect income for all UK controlled territories on the Europe map. The government in exile may mobilize units only in Canadian industrial complexes.

Once per game, at the Collect Income phase of a turn when the UK government is in exile and London has been liberated, the Government in exile may return to London; or it may choose to remain in Canada. When it returns to London, the UK Europe government will continue to collect income for all UK controlled territories on the Europe map and on the following turn it may mobilize units in any UK controlled industrial complex on the Europe map.

JimmyHat

@Vance:

And just to be good and thorough, here is an option with the Scotland idea removed.

Thats good because I don’t like that wrinkle. I don’t really understand why and what will keep Germany from taking Scotland anyways. Plus there is no precedent for a territory becoming a neutral.

Young Grasshopper

@JimmyHat:

@Vance:

And just to be good and thorough, here is an option with the Scotland idea removed.

Thats good because I don’t like that wrinkle. I don’t really understand why and what will keep Germany from taking Scotland anyways. Plus there is no precedent for a territory becoming a neutral.

If this is a vote of approval for “option D”, than I will compromise and support “option D” as well.

JimmyHat

I have yet to vote, tho i need to.

Jennifer

Option D looks good…Although, I am not really sure why we’ve decided that Quebec > Ontario for the new capitol…yes it has the minor IC already, but that’s easily remedied, if it’s important for England to have a complex on the new capitol, they can bloody well build one! I’ve only seen one game where Germany was any credible threat to Canada, and I have to say, I am pretty darn confident that a complex on the capitol would not have made a lick of difference in whether or not Canada fell. (BTW, no it did not, Germany sacked DC instead because the player was worried about a beach head in Canada.)

Yes, I said that my opinion is that all capitols should have an AA Gun and at least a minor Complex. However, today is a day ending in y, therefore, I have the right to change my opinion, kay? Good. :evil: :-P :evil:

JimmyHat

Shouldn’t the capital be the VC?

Okay, I like Version A the best, the only part I don’t like is the removal of the convoy zone. How do you intend to denote on the game board that this convoy zone is dormant? I also think that while that convoy zone represents trade flowing from Canada to UK, I also think that now the capital has moved it represents trade flowing into Canada to support production.

Another factor is the Atlantic is already fairly slim pickings for subs to convoy, especially after the fall of London. Germany may still want to pursue a sub strategy. Lastly, because at the fall of London the USA joins the war, that convoy zone is going to be easily protected and most likely cleared by the time it is Canada’s turn anyways.

last edit, I promise. I would like to add that when this rule is playtested if Canada seems impotent we add a small NO.

Young Grasshopper

How about we keep all the convoy zones active if you agree to allow the UK to collect income from original territories they still control on the Europe board.

JimmyHat

Are you asking me which of those two rules are less destabilizing towards the goal of an even game for either side?

I’d say the convoy zone would be less destabilizing mostly because we are talking about so few a number of ipcs. Otherwise if all the Axis get for capturing a capital(london) is disruption of production for 1 round, a 5 ipc NO and all UK’s Cash On Hand(CoH) I’m not so sure it would be worthwhile in comparison to a G2 barbarossa.

If Canada/USA can’t defend that convoy zone, even with 7ipcs, then perhaps this rule might just be the fix. Still, how do you plan on representing this on the board in FTF games with many people, it will need to be recognizable and a part of the game components…

I would sure like to hear from others, it seems moving the threads to ‘house rules’ may have lost input.

special forces

@JimmyHat:

Still, how do you plan on representing this on the board in FTF games with many people, it will need to be recognizable and a part of the game components…

I agree.

In fact, ideally all the changes should be in the change of the set-up and NO’s (and rules). Nothing printed on the board should get changed and no one should need pieces not included in the box. (kinda like you said)

Ok everyone, I am going to go out on the limb and say that the people have spoken and the best compromise is Option D, with Ottawa as the capital. Grasshopper, unless anyone objects strongly, I would like to give you this option as the final version.

UK Europe government in exile - Collaborative version.

The first time London is captured by an axis power, the capitol of UK Europe moves to Ottawa, Canada. The axis power that captures London seizes all IPCs currently held by UK Europe. The United States and Soviet union immediately join the Allies if they are not yet at war. Beginning at the Collect Income phase of its next turn, and as long as the UK government is in exile, it will collect income for all UK controlled territories on the Europe map. The government in exile may mobilize units only in Canadian industrial complexes.

Once per game, at the Collect Income phase of a turn when the UK government is in exile and London has been liberated, the Government in exile may return to London; or it may choose to remain in Canada. When it returns to London, the UK Europe government will continue to collect income for all UK controlled territories on the Europe map and on the following turn it may mobilize units in any UK controlled industrial complex on the Europe map.

UK Gov't in exile Discussion - Delta 1

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