Italy a bad design

how can the bomber reach the UK fleet off Gibraltor in SZ 91?

I was just looking at that and apparently it cant, grr.  Well I am still going to send two submarines after that.  Can planes ever attack subs or is that only when the destroyer is present?

planes can only hit subs when destroyers are present

@Real:

I was just looking at that and apparently it cant, grr.  Well I am still going to send two submarines after that.  Can planes ever attack subs or is that only when the destroyer is present?

You’re right, my bad.  I am going to send the 2 subs against it as well.  The Tac can attack the sub only with the DD present- so at least 1 hit and the UK has to either damage the CV or lose the DD, condemning the CV at the same time.  There’s a decent shot that the 2 SS will take out both ships while they themselves are sunk- a fair trade in my book.

Even if I Germany can hit the Gibr fleet (can’t really do much damage), but at what cost. The UK has a better chance of keeping a BB (or other ships) doesn’t it. I have only played 2 partial games so far, but what seems to work is if Germany puts out a Sea Lion threat early. This forces the UK to spend money on ground troops at home, and try to block out the German fleet (costing UK/French boats). This could be just a threat to keep UK honest, you could always return the German fleet to the safety of the Baltic and use it to invade Russia (as mentioned by previous posters)

I have to agree w/miamibeach, (those comments are childish). Putting the UK carrier w/French fleet is dicey at best. Germany will kill them w/air from W Germany. This could be an allied strat though, if Germany hits it. It keeps German air tied up, and will most likely reduce the Luftwaffe.

In one game that we played Germany went navy, and a Sea lion was a threat. As UK you can block the Baltic fleet (as long as they stay there) giving you a little cushion. If they come out G1 and add a carrier w/air, and some support ships in sz 112, you would have to abandon the Italian navy attack in sz 95 wouldn’t you. You would most likely have to try to take out the German navy, using the carrier to soak up hits. Either that or build inf in England to absorb the Sea lion attempt (or both). You would still want that carrier to head to the Atlantic regardless for attack or to re-build the UK fleet, and not be in the Med (at least I would). If there is no Sea lion threat then I might take out the Italian navy, but I would see the counter attack coming, knowing that the allied fleet in the Med would most likely be taken out as well.

Hey Indianapolis, I dont have the game yet.  Unlike all you guys who live on the Eastcoast I still have to wait until tomorrow to pummel the Russians to bloody submission….and since there is no rulebook online I am looking towards you.

@bugoo:

1. Control of Gibralter.  There are many ways for germany to get boats into the med.  If both G and I have boats in the med and transports, they can continually trade gibralter to prevent the allies from entering the med.

I totally agree.  Based on the Straights of Gibraltar rule, it is much wiser for Italy to either hold Gibraltar or trade it back and forth.  This way they don’t have to have a mega-fleet to offset the American one.  They will still need some boats to protect their transports from air attack but they don’t need an uber-fleet.

I have been quoted twice!  Makes me feel so warm and fuzzy……

@plumsmugler:

@bugoo:

1. Control of Gibralter.  There are many ways for germany to get boats into the med.  If both G and I have boats in the med and transports, they can continually trade gibralter to prevent the allies from entering the med.

I totally agree.  Based on the Straights of Gibraltar rule, it is much wiser for Italy to either hold Gibraltar or trade it back and forth.  This way they don’t have to have a mega-fleet to offset the American one.  They will still need some boats to protect their transports from air attack but they don’t need an uber-fleet.

How is it possible for Germany have the points to do all this plus hold off the Russians and cover West Germany/Denmark against the brits?  Where does Italy find the pts to do Gibraltar trading if it’s stuck at 10-14 pts and it’s fleet is sitting at the bottom of the Med?  The US can come at Gibraltar on T4 with 150 pts of fleet and units with more arriving each successive turn.  It looks wiser to me to have Germany concentrate its army in W Germ, Denmark and South Germany to counterattack after any allied landing and to just say to hell with Gibraltar.

Maybe Gibraltar should not have a naval base? Malta got downgraded, so why not Gibraltar as well……

I completely agree that the game is broken. After all, not making the game so Italy can have a 50/50 chance of taking all of africa and making it very likely the Germans have to do it and regulating Italy to a subserviant role is completely broken. What were they thinking. It is like they were making a WW2 scenario in 1940 or something.

Oh and add the game being broken because of France too. I mean, really. France has no chance against Germany. Who would want to play France.

I think Italy sucking and France getting smoked in the first round have nothing to do with whether or not the game is broken…sure there are some weaker powers, but what really matters is there about a 50/50 chance of the axis or the allies winning.  Yea the Italian situation sucks, but maybe it can be fixed by using submarines to disable the carrier.

You mean make a suckable, WW2 1940 suckie power not suck. Italy was meant to suck, just like France. This whole Italy sucking making the game broken is ridiculous. The real question would be what ability does Germany have to get in there and help. Or should they at all. Those questions can only be answered with years of play. Declaring the game to being broken this soon is beyond foolish, it’s laughable.

With that said, I have been a player since the 1980’s and understand how broken each new version was and how hard it seemed to be for them to fix it. No Pacific naval battles, China being to weak, (still is) ect…

The best we can hope for is to only have to slightly tweak the game for realism and fair play. For instance, letting China go first and perhaps a J1 attack being a mistake, now that Germany will feel the consequences in the Global game.

Seriously why not take away Gibraltar’s air and naval bases. Would it really have a huge impact on what the allies are able to do? Whereas it might mean that the Italians actually have a chance of doing something in their first turn. Meanwhile even without the Naval Base the UK carrier and destroyer can still get back to Britain or join up with the French fleet. It may not be historically accurate, but is there any other way that does not upset the balance of the game even more?