Wasn’t venting, just offering suggestions. It is different then the decades old rules, as combat triggered would freeze the transports thus preventing ever noncombat loading from that sea zone if blockers maintained. Krieg reads this site and he consults Larry on rules. Sorry about venue, some of these are complex questions.
_2. Allied armada in z6(Japan).
On UK turn, they send 5 air units to strafe Japan-to weaken for Anzac capture. As a result:A) Can Japan scramble (to escape being strafed) and engage the UK navy and transports(even though there is no naval battle or amphibious assault in that zone), that are not moved during Combat phase and plan to move during Noncombat?
B) Will this freeze them? (if Japan scrambles prior to their non combat move, they are typically stuck from the battle)
C) Can they move out first? (I believe you are permitted to move during combat move to avoid combat if you begin in a hostile zone)
D) Can they pick up land units and drop off land units (during combat, but as a noncombat move elsewhere)?
E) Can the UK navy retreat (if forced to fight by a scramble), and since they did not attack from a zone (because they did not move yet), what zone can they retreat to? (if they can retreat, normally you must return from whence you came, they came from nowhere but the zone they started in, hence the confusion if they are permitted a retreat)
(This can autokill transports if UK has a small navy, compared to the allied force and are forbidden a retreat)-seems broken. (seems broken is a way to ask if this is as intended or if this needs review. This may not apply as attackers are typically allowed a retreat)F) Can Japan Kamikaze the navy as a result of the air only attack on Japan, thus clearing the 1 or 2 surface vessels and autokilling the UK transports within a giant multinational fleet? (If they are not permitted a retreat, which would essentially give them a free movement of 1: Assumes at least 1 fighter is scramble to do the autokilling)
G) If no air attack on Japan, can Japan scramble anyway to freeze the navy so they get no Noncombat move?_
I hope that clears up the wording of this complex issue.
Well, for one, you can’t move after a scramble. All combat moves must be made in anticipation of a scramble. So yes, a scramble of even one aircraft will lock the navy in place. So…
A. Yes
B. Yes
C. Yes, but before the scramble is declared.
D. They’re permitted to move first, and that is a legal combat move, because you’re allowed to avoid the possibility of a combat due to scrambling. If they load transports during that combat move, they must do an amphibious assault with those units on that turn. And they cannot load during noncom.
E. They cannot retreat, if they don’t move. They’re very stuck there.
F. Yes.
G. Yes.
So using F as an answer, if an American fleet were escorting UK transport and Anzac transport fleets with no UK or Anzac warships: Japan can simply scramble 1 ftr each UK and Anzac turn to sink their ships. The only other viable option is to move out away from the protection of the US fleet and endure being autokilled that way on Japan’s next turn?
Should that be reviewed if accurate?
This question (and answer) intrigues me… but not sure to understand it.
I don’t see such thing as “multi nation escort” while attacking. Do you suggest that US navy is already in z6 when, at UK’s turn, only UK’s transports act as amphibious attack? (Both USA and Anzac units are simply not in action during UK’s turn)
Since, there’s no “multi nation” for an attack, seems obvious for me that UK transport are on their own… and therfore very vulnerable if a plane (and operational airbase) is present in Japan. Thus, I’m not sure I understand the situation you expose.
Japan cannot scramble, as there is no naval battle in the sea zone and no amphibious assault being launched from it. This makes all of the other questions irrelevant.
5. Japan has 2 subs in z6. USA sends transports, air units, and a dd,ca escort, choosing to not battle the subs so they can take Korea. Can Japan Kamikaze the dd and ca, thus forcing a sea battle and permit the now active subs the option to fend off the helpless transports? Can a scramble activate the subs, and thus fend off the transports assuming the subs hit (the dd and ca being the only targets they can hit) and the USA hits are applied to the defending Japanese planes?
Scramble would activate the subs, yes. Not sure about kamikazes without looking into it.
Kamikaze would not activate the subs, as kamikaze are not part of combat and therefore do not themselves force a battle.
Japan cannot scramble, as there is no naval battle in the sea zone and no amphibious assault being launched from it. This makes all of the other questions irrelevant.
Wait, maybe I’m confused. I thought it was possible to scramble to force a naval battle - in this example I thought there were previous posts that established that the UK naval units are permitted to retreat in this example in anticipation of a scramble. Perhaps I’m confusing this with another unit composition/situation
You’re saying that if the combat move phase didn’t move anything - the ships simply remain in place in the seazone, that a defending power cannot scramble to the seazone full of hostiles.
It does makes sense, but I’m struggling to remember the thread I’m confusing this with. I’m thinking the example I’m remembering had an amphibious assault in it - not a simple strafing run.
But lets say there’s a strafing run from SZ6 - Japan can’t scramble in response to the strafing run to hit the UK carriers in that seazone (I assume the planes came from carriers, not land bound)?
Thought they could… huh.
You’re saying that if the combat move phase didn’t move anything - the ships simply remain in place in the seazone, that a defending power cannot scramble to the seazone full of hostiles.
It has nothing to do with combat movement, and everything to do with combat. The defender may only scramble if there is an attack, either in the sea zone or an amphibious assault from it.
It does makes sense, but I’m struggling to remember the thread I’m confusing this with. I’m thinking the example I’m remembering had an amphibious assault in it - not a simple strafing run.
I believe it did.
But lets say there’s a strafing run from SZ6 - Japan can’t scramble in response to the strafing run to hit the UK carriers in that seazone (I assume the planes came from carriers, not land bound)?
Nope.
Just to be sure… bad memory, sorry :oops:
Situation
4 planes (3Italian, 1 German) and nothing else is guarding Egypt with an operational airbase.
Axis DD+Sub+3Tr are in z98, no Axis fleet in z81
The Attacks
A. 2 Inf walking from Sudan plus 2 Inf amphibious along BB from z81
B. DD+2Ftr attacking z98.
If I understand right…
1. Maximum of 3 planes (regardless of nations) can scramble, splitted between z98 and z81 at axis’(defender) choice
2. Planes assigned to scramble will not battle in Egypt’s land combat.
3. Obviously, if scramble succeed to beat z81, the 2Inf from Sudan still have to do (at least) 1 round of combat in Egypt by themselves.
4. Say the defender choose to scramble to z98, wins battle B… but looses Egypt due to battle A. Are Axis’ places lost or they can land in Alexandria, for instance (giving Axis hold Alexandria).
5. Say, for z98’s (no scramble) round 2 example Axis(Sub+Transport) face Alliance (2Ftr), i.e. both DD are gone… then Axis sub will remain but Alliance’s Ftr will still sink Transport before flying back to landing spot.
1-3 are correct
4 - When planes lose their original base (TT or Carrier), they can fly one space to land or they splash. Alx is one space so yes they can go there.
5 - Yes, if in round 2 of the battle you have 2 fighters vs. sub and transport, the sub is out of the battle and the transport will be sunk.
Undefeated in Alpha2?! We might have to play sometime!
Undefeated in Alpha2?! We might have to play sometime!
Yep, I’m flawless (1vs1) here. Anytime! :-)
I’m afraid I have too many matches in progress right now, but I’ll write your name down and talk to you later
I attack a territory with a fighter, the only place for the fighter to land is in an adjacent seazone where an aircraftcarrier must pick it up during noncombat move, the fighter survives the battle and the aircraft carrier has a clear path to pick up said fighter. However i choose not to pick up the fighter and let it splash instead.
Is this a legal move? Or must the aircraftcarrier move to the seazone where the fighter can land on it?
No it is not a legal move. You must move your AC to “pick up” the fighter.
Right - not legal
Fighters only splash when it is impossible to pick them up during noncombat movement
No I believe you can only let planes splash if there’s no way to save them.
Right - not legal
Fighters only splash when it is impossible to pick them up during noncombat movement
No I believe you can only let planes splash if there’s no way to save them.
And to clarify that is only in the case of the aircraft carriers being destroyed during that combat phase.
Or damaged, or a blocker not being cleared.
@Uncrustable:
I attack a territory with a fighter, the only place for the fighter to land is in an adjacent seazone where an aircraftcarrier must pick it up during noncombat move, the fighter survives the battle and the aircraft carrier has a clear path to pick up said fighter. However i choose not to pick up the fighter and let it splash instead.
Is this a legal move? Or must the aircraftcarrier move to the seazone where the fighter can land on it?
I tend to disagree that this is an illegal move.
Nowhere in the rules does it state that you must pick up aircraft. It only states that each plane must have a place to land before takeoff (no matter how remote). So my fighter did have a place to land, but the rules do not say that you have to land it, and i chose not to.
In 1942 version on gametableonline this is an entirely legal move (or a bug) which i often use as japan to kill unescorted loaded transports or on my sz52 attack i always send 2 fighters and one bomber, if both fighters survive then one is going to die anyhow because i refuse to pick it up.
Id like to know Kreighund’s take on this ?
