Sealion inevitable?

@LHoffman:

By G3 can’t the Americans bring ships into the channel and form some sort of a blockade? I mean, not that they would be of any tactical use, especially if they aren’t at war yet… but they’d prevent shore bombardments and they would make Germany bring the US into the war, perhaps earlier than they wanted to?

Is this at all possible? I have not looked at the map/rules/Sealion strategy to know if there is a way to preventt the US from doing this…

Powers neutral to each other can share the same sea zone

So, basically, all the US would be doing is watching the friendly neutral Jerries blow the crap up out of London G3 from the Channel (you couldn’t drop off land units to help either).  The next turn, however, would contain shenanigans.

Ah… so if the US in in a sea zone w/ a British ship and Jerry wants to do an amphib in that sea zone… they can ignore the US ship? That doesn’t make much sense to me…

I believe that with full, unhindered investment Germany could do Sealion on turn 3. However, we should remember that major ICs downgrade into minor ones upon capture, so I doubt Germ could produce enough in the UK to hold it in the face of American aggression. And on turn 3, Germ will be hurting from that huge naval buy and vulnerable to the Russians.

I think the most viable strategy is to have enough of a fleet to threaten both the UK as well as Northwest Russia, in order to force both parties to be prepared for an attack instead of attacking you.

@LHoffman:

Ah… so if the US in in a sea zone w/ a British ship and Jerry wants to do an amphib in that sea zone… they can ignore the US ship? That doesn’t make much sense to me…

The rules specifically say that neutral ships are ignored unless the opponent specifically decides to attack them, in which case they must declare war.  However, the US may not move their naval units to sea zones adjacent to Britain, Europe, or Africa while they are not at war, so the point about blocking the channel is moot anyway.

@SAS:

@LHoffman:

Ah… so if the US in in a sea zone w/ a British ship and Jerry wants to do an amphib in that sea zone… they can ignore the US ship? That doesn’t make much sense to me…

The rules specifically say that neutral ships are ignored unless the opponent specifically decides to attack them, in which case they must declare war.  However, the US may not move their naval units to sea zones adjacent to Britain, Europe, or Africa while they are not at war, so the point about blocking the channel is moot anyway.

DAMMIT! ! !

LOL, LHoffman, quit whining, Sealion is the WORST POSSIBLE GERMAN STRATEGY.  The Jerries can take England, but it will be at most for 1 turn, and then they won’t have anything left to fight Russia much less hold onto England from US counterattacks.

The G1 buy will have to be 1 AC, DD, and SUB.  The G2 buy will have to be NINE TRANSPORTS.  There’s no infantry built in there anywhere, and you’re committing around 20 ground units to the assault, for a battle with slightly less than even odds.  Even if you dice well, its inevitable you’re going to lose England since there’s no conceivable way you can hold the UK against an 82+ IPC USA.

Um, to me it seems that a turn 1 buy of navy is foolish for a sea lion.  You would be better served to place your BB/Cru out to kill the two cruisers with some air help, make sure no brit DDs survive, then purchase a fighter or two, and some subs while hiding the transport in the baltic.  Then if UK leaves itself open with there purchases, as in they buy navy or squander it in the med, then on G2 you should purchase enough boats to keep a fleet alive in 112, and a crapton of not just transports, but planes.  Planes can hit UK, and help to keep the US at bay.

And if the UK wastes its air killing your ships, so be it.

@SgtBlitz:

LOL, LHoffman, quit whining, Sealion is the WORST POSSIBLE GERMAN STRATEGY.  The Jerries can take England, but it will be at most for 1 turn, and then they won’t have anything left to fight Russia much less hold onto England from US counterattacks.

The G1 buy will have to be 1 AC, DD, and SUB.  The G2 buy will have to be NINE TRANSPORTS.  There’s no infantry built in there anywhere, and you’re committing around 20 ground units to the assault, for a battle with slightly less than even odds.  Even if you dice well, its inevitable you’re going to lose England since there’s no conceivable way you can hold the UK against an 82+ IPC USA.

I’m not whining, I am trying to argue my point and come up with possibilities here…

Oh, so you’re admitting that “Sealion is the worst possible strategy”… well then, I can stop arguing. That was my whole point was that it was a bad idea for trying to be victorious in the game. If you realize that then my job is done. I thought all this time you wanted to do it because you thought it was a GOOD idea.

As long as you recognize it is bad, then I am fine with you pursuing your novel ideas… I didn’t want you corrupting the youth though.  :-D

@bugoo:

Um, to me it seems that a turn 1 buy of navy is foolish for a sea lion.  You would be better served to place your BB/Cru out to kill the two cruisers with some air help, make sure no brit DDs survive, then purchase a fighter or two, and some subs while hiding the transport in the baltic.  Then if UK leaves itself open with there purchases, as in they buy navy or squander it in the med, then on G2 you should purchase enough boats to keep a fleet alive in 112, and a crapton of not just transports, but planes.  Planes can hit UK, and help to keep the US at bay.

And if the UK wastes its air killing your ships, so be it.

Nope, the UK can splash your fleet in SZ 112 unless you back it up with at least 1 CV + 2 FIGs.  There’s 2 BBs in range, multiple DDs, 1 CV/TAC/DD off Gibraltar that can reach, 3 FIG off England….  SZ 112 is a gonner if you move any naval units there without serious backup.

You could try to hide out in SZ 113 the first few turns and not use the BB and CA at all, but its going to be really hard to kill the entire RCN with just the subs and airforce w/o taking losses.  Even if you didn’t move it out of the Baltic until G3, the UK can build 2 FIGs a turn and will eventually use its starting 3 FIGs, 1 TAC to take out the BB and CA unless you build extra fodder naval units.  Hence, I’d recommend a CV G1.

By G3 you’re looking at over 20 inf in the UK plus all their planes, you’d have to build something like NINE TRANSPORTS to even get even odds attacking that.

Obviously you would sink atleast one of the battleships, maybe even two.  My point is if UK buys inf heavy you would avoid sea lion, if they build boats and/or big time in africa, send in the sea lion.

I mean really, if UK buys 9 men on turn 1, why even bother facing them as there no threat, its time to eat some russia!

I think I personally will purchase 1 trans, 1 DD, or two trans and 5 inf on turn 1, hiding atleast the trans in the baltic maybe even the rest of the boats while sinking all the UK boats I can without huge risk, probably leaving 1 BB, 1 Cru in the atlantic.  Then on turn 2 if the UK builds say, a minor IC, or 3 tanks out of south africa, move up the fleet drop more boats and dance in London on turn 3.  Keep in mind too, you don’t need all transports as your airforce is larger than the UKs, not only that but 13 IPCs gets you two inf and a trannie, 10 gets you a fighter.  Yes the inf are better but the fighter is more versatile after you take London.

What I’m saying is, going hardcore sea lion isnt that great of an idea, but the threat of it forces the UK to react and gives you an advantage.