Straight of Gibraltar

Does anyone know why morocco is not required as well for a strait crossing?

@FieldMarshalGames:

@cond1024:

@FieldMarshalGames:

My only concern (and maybe a house rule will have to be made) is that Subs should be able to go through…  Both Allied and Axis Submarines went through during the war.

I seem to recall reading somewhere on these boards that subs are allowed to pass through enemy controlled straights.

If that is the case please confirm as I don’t recall hearing that.

With all the posts I have been reading about this game between here and Larry’s site I don’t remeber exactly where I saw it.  I looked back through several posts but could not find the reference.  Lets ask one of the guys that have already played.

@The:

Does anyone know why morocco is not required as well for a strait crossing?

Because Gibraltar had guns that would shoot at ships that tried to cross. Morocco didn’t

From Krieghund

@Krieghund:

@cond1024:

Quick rules question for you, are subs able to pass through enemy controlled straits?

Only Gibraltar.

So subs are able to pass through Gibraltar interesting 1 rule exception, but on a similar topic one Italian strategy i was thinking of would be to capture Gibraltar early on, before US enters the war. US will inevitably try to liberate Africa, Morocco is 3 spaces away from the eastern USA naval base and a quick drop point for boatloads of soldiers, but what if Italy took Gibraltar and never occupied Morocco? Morocco would remain a useless French territory and without a naval base to help the US transport return in one turn this move could slow a US liberation of the entire continent. Troops would either have to be shuck over from southeast Mexico in 1 turn or some Brazil-French West Africa Strategy would be used. Just a thought, would Italy really miss that 1 extra IPC?

If I was the US then I would attack and liberate Gibraltar.  Problem solved.

Hence why we will see a Gibraltar that is going to be fought over quite often and it sounds like Italian income can be in the 30’s by turn 3, giving them lots of money to reinforce the tiny territory. I owuldn’t let US have it without a large commitment of force.

Gibralter is also the key stopover point for all UK aircraft to reach the Med and N Africa. Take that away and UK would have much more difficulty in getting aircraft into the region.

@cressman8064:

Hence why we will see a Gibraltar that is going to be fought over quite often and it sounds like Italian income can be in the 30’s by turn 3, giving them lots of money to reinforce the tiny territory. I owuldn’t let US have it without a large commitment of force.

italy in the 30’s of income round 3?
not with egypt IC and taranto raid…

So subs can go through gibraltar…but not denmark? strange.

Yea that is strange that subs can go through one strait but not the other, but I’m sure they had reasons for that and it doesn’t really concern me.

Take a guess? I think the staight by Denmark was heavily mined and had alot of anti sub nets that Gibralter didnt have. :?

@Danger:

This is definately a rule that has been long needed for the game, but without any form of defence for Gibraltar it seems like an easy take for the Axis? If Germany is able to wipe out the U.K. fleet on G1 as people are suggesting then it sounds like an easy grab for Italy that has long lasting consequences for the Med… G2 would have perhaps a fighter or two landing there thus ensuring a real fight for the allies to retake it and keeping the Italian fleet safe from Allied Naval units.  It’s like fortifying the Carolinas on PAC40 it can hold back the Allies for several extra rounds that make all the difference.

Yeah. Historically it wasn’t easy to take Gibraltar at all. It was impossible to amphibiously assault it (because of the almost vertical and heavily defended cliff) and even a paradrop would have been extremely difficult. The only truly feasible option would have been an attack trhough mainland Spain. Unfortunately for Hitler, Franco categorically and repeatedly refused this as he did not want to be involved. I wish they had therefore made it a bit harder to take Gibraltar…But hey, it’s an improvement from the way things were!

@FieldMarshalGames:

Thanks for the confirmation about Subs re Gibraltar.

Seems to me Gibraltar will be a very interesting case in this new game…. VERY EXCITING!

Now whats even more exciting than that is your new AA pieces!

There are flat areas at Gibraltar as well, and lets not forget the history of the German attack on Eban-Emael.  If the Germans had thought about approaches to Gibraltar earlier, they could have demanded access through Vichey N. Africa, make Spain give Er Rif its independence, followed by a German invasion of Er Rif…bring up their 8 big Krupp guns, pound Gibraltar with 562 pound shells every 30 seconds, contest the air night and day, then invade.  Another idea would have been to force Spain to accept non-beligerant status and move through daring the Brits to contest them in Spain.