How is France going to survive even 1 round?!?

I don’t think it was meant to survive the 1st rouund. The game is st immediately after Dunkirk, meaning it is only 18 days until France surrenders.

There is no Vichy France. France acts like any power whose capital has been captured: they can only do combat and noncombat moves with their navy and African units

france had one of the largest standing armies at the start of ww2. but it doesnt help much, when germany just went an other way than thru the maginot-line. as stated above, france will be seize to exist on g1. as we all know, france fell like domino-chips. nothing can stop the german wehrmacht…… maybe the russian winter.

@anderb:

france had one of the largest standing armies at the start of ww2. but it doesnt help much, when germany just went an other way than thru the maginot-line. as stated above, france will be seize to exist on g1. as we all know, france fell like domino-chips. nothing can stop the german wehrmacht…… maybe the russian winter.

…and the English Channel

@UN:

Or, to make it more interesting, the French player can chose to go with Free France or Vichy France?

I hope it’s the latter.  :-(

That would be cool, but sadly I think that your kklol teory is going to be the truth OOB. Anyway, soon or later you will find someone that will mod the game in that way. Current capital rules are lame

@UN:

Not only does France get to go last, but Germany is in a position from the get-go to basically slap France in the mouth multiple times and then some. I know that we (me?) have no idea what the unit placement will be, but I have a feeling that France’s initial forces won’t be all that great. So then how on Earth is France going to survive even one round? Maybe there’s a Maginot Line rule in the “France” territory? Maybe I’m unaware that this has been discussed to death and that I’m simply a paranoid Frenchman?

I think the idea is that Germany has the capability to overrun France on turn 1 if they commit to it, but to give them the opportunity to follow other war plans if they make sense (e.g. an immediate assault on USSR and a turn 2 or 3 rollup of the French).  That’s how I’d set it up.

You will need much mojo to have success with a ignore France strat  :-D

@Funcioneta:

You will need much mojo to have success with a ignore France strat  :-D

I agree, but I also believe in giving players enough rope to hang themselves.  The decision that I think Germany will have is between a guaranteed smashing victory against France that leaves your army out of position for several turns against USSR (as those bemoaning the lack of railroads have pointed out) or a marginal victory against France, leaving a larger force to pressure USSR, but resulting in higher attrition and a chance of failure.

How intresting it is to see this topic today! I was just discussing at lunch today with a friend the situation of France in the upcomming game. We postulated and theorized over the starting setup, the position of the billigrents, and discussed possible strats to save France from a turn 1 defeat.
Several thoughts, although this is all just guessing at this point, were that perhapse the British could make some offensive moves to counter the Germans. Perhapse they could land in the atlantic tt of France and attempt a second turn counter-attack in to Paris region. Britian goes before France so maybe a “can-opener” strat could be used by the 2 powers. Even if not successful, perhapse tying down German units in France will be benifical in the long run as it will distract the Germans from their eastern borders and allow the Soviets to make some agressive moves when it comes time for them to enter the conflict. I refuse to believe that sea-lion has that much of a chance as I expect the Royal Navy, the largest in the world at the time, to be a large enough force to keep the Germans out allowing you to run the home island empty.

From what I remember Larry said France would be well represented, but Germany will use a true blitzkrieg. I gather the total number of units the two counties will have at the boarder may be similar, but Germany will have much better units. Germany will get tanks, ftrs, and tacs (combo 4’s) that will get much higher rolls as well as a good amount of inf. I could see France having a few tanks (maybe some air units), but mostly inf, and art defending (lower rolls). If Germany try’s to hold back, or gets terrible dice, Paris may survive rd #1. I think Germany should have the strength to take both the Paris tt (from W Germany), and the French coastal tt (from the low countries) rd #1. Then Italy should be able to take the Vichy tt on its first turn, leaving France only some scattered units in Africa, and maybe the Mid East

I also think most of the French fleet will get toasted rd #1 as well, leaving only remnants of what is was. The question is how large will the French/UK fleet be, vs how much of it the Germans/Italians can send to the bottom. Will the axis pull some of its air from the French ground battle, to go after the navies. Seems most AA games start w/Germany taking out a good chunk of the UK fleet, they seem to always get a British BB. So will it be the British fleet, or the French fleet?

So I agree don’t take France lightly, although it might delay a Barbarossa, or Sea lion. You wouldn’t want the French to get to spend their $ on their turn (for you to attack more French units), when you can steal it for yourself to aid the Axis Juggernaut. The 3 french tt combined could be worth 9- 10 ipc this time around, plus what ever the French purse is for taking their capital.

I would think that both Germany and Russia will have very little as far as attack units facing each other rd #1. They will have enough to gobble up some E Europe pro neutrals, but will have to reposition, or buy units to invade the other.

Well according to what everyones saying is it really a point to add France in, like if it doesn’t get to even play its turn and Germany will most likely capture Paris and who knows what the fucking Italians will do! Like give it do Britain or something?

@calvinhobbesliker:

I don’t think it was meant to survive the 1st rouund. The game is st immediately after Dunkirk, meaning it is only 18 days until France surrenders.

I thought someone mentioned that they might last 2 rounds.

I think a nice setup would make it so that if Germany moves all of its forces from the low countries and western Germany to the paris sector, then you have a nearly 100% chance of success. However, if you were to split your forces and attack both the paris sector and the atlantic coast tt of France then your chances of success are 50/50.
It might make the game more intresting and give the allies a way to try and tie up German forces on the western front if the British player decides to go for broke a empty the home islands.

@calvinhobbesliker:

There is no Vichy France. France acts like any power whose capital has been captured: they can only do combat and noncombat moves with their navy and African units

I think its intresting the amount of debate about what to do if a nations capitol falls, how they would go on. I think PAC40 give us the best modle with the way China is represented. I will most likely adopt this for France after Paris falls, allowing them to collect what IPC they have left and produce Infantry only, same as China. Not sure what will need to be met to allow them to still produce atry like China but ill think of something

Yea I think Germany will have 3 main objectives rd #1.

a) Take the Paris tt
b) Destroy as much of the French/English fleet as it can.
c) Take the French coast tt

The Luftwaffe will have some decisions to make. If Germany try’s all three objectives, I think it could win all three battles. As you pointed out though, what will the cost be. As a result of not heavily concentrating your forces, the Paris battle goes longer (an extra rd), you’ll be weaker (due to extra losses) and will have less units to def in a counter attack (if one is even possible). If you don’t take both the French coast, and naval units of opportunity, that could come back to haunt you as well.

You have to walk a tightrope in your attacks, making sure you can def your new conquests, as well as get your forces in position for your next move (Barbarossa, Sea lion etc). The most important thing is to stop France from producing units (capital), and lock down your income (including the French starting income).

@anderb:

france had one of the largest standing armies at the start of ww2. but it doesnt help much, when germany just went an other way than thru the maginot-line. as stated above, france will be seize to exist on g1. as we all know, france fell like domino-chips. nothing can stop the german wehrmacht…… maybe the russian winter.

Maybe you should read up on WW2. The point of the Maginot Line was to force Germany to go around it, funneling them into the french armies in the north. It worked like a charm. The problem was that the blitzkrieg tactic was too strong for the french, and also that the jerries sent armor through the Ardennes.

Will Paris even be in French hands at the start because since French Indo China doesn’t provoke war will Paris even be French at the start

Yes the French will own Paris at the start

@Dylan:

Will Paris even be in French hands at the start because since French Indo China doesn’t provoke war will Paris even be French at the start

What kind of question is this? If Paris is not in the french hands at the beginning of the game, then France is out of the game.