How is France going to survive even 1 round?!?

I think you have nailed the Axis strategy, Wild Bill.  So how does UK and France counter this strategy? Obviously Germany gets the first shot and all France may have is some navy and units in Africa.  Does the French player try to hold Africa as long as possible or retreat its land forces via transports to British tt  and mass its fleets with British fleets in a circle the wagons approach?  Or does the French fleet do a kamikaze to damage the Italian fleet as much as possible?  Of course all this will depend on initial unit set-up.  Any thoughts?

@Brain:

@Dylan:

Will Paris even be in French hands at the start because since French Indo China doesn’t provoke war will Paris even be French at the start

What kind of question is this? If Paris is not in the french hands at the beginning of the game, then France is out of the game.

I don’t know It thought this was after Dunkirk and I thought Paris was caught by then, but I guess not

I think the French NO of getting 4inf when Paris is liberated give the alies some real options, even early on. I, personally, dont think that sealion is going to be a real threat to the UK. Unless you have a German player who would rather ignore the Soviets, I think once mainland France falls all of Germanys offensive power will go to the east.
SO, this means that the UK player can afford to run the home islands empty and pump what they can into France. The benifits of this stratagey should seem kind of obvious as tying up German units in the west will only help in the east. However, the possibility of being renforced the moment you capture Paris means that constantly attacking into France is more than just an annoyance, it can become a real threat. I wonder what the initial set-up will be? Because if its at all possible for the rest of the French forces on the mainland to mount a counter-attack into Paris on their opening turn, with the aid of a UK “can opener” perhapse, and then being renforced by those 4 free inf from their NO, you could have a real ball game on your hands as the westen allies early on.

@UN:

I think there should be a special rule that the British or American player can give the French player a certain amount of IPCs to use on only infantry (and perhaps artillery and tanks when certain prerequisites are met). I do not think it would be fun at all if the French player simply has to make due with what he has after the fall of Metropolitan France.

That’s why there’s not going to BE a dedicated France player…

@bennyboyg:

@UN:

I think there should be a special rule that the British or American player can give the French player a certain amount of IPCs to use on only infantry (and perhaps artillery and tanks when certain prerequisites are met). I do not think it would be fun at all if the French player simply has to make due with what he has after the fall of Metropolitan France.

That’s why there’s not going to BE a dedicated France player…

France is going to be a power that will always go to a player already with another power, as China is handled in Pacific.

Confirmed or not, unless there is some popping inf rule for Free France, nobody is going to want play France alone (and even then, I doubt it)

I’ll repeat it: this game is going to be rich in mods. Somebody will mod Free and Vichy France, some others  :roll: will delete ACME walls, and soon or later you’ll have 1939, 1944, 1945 or even alternate history scenarios (CSA?)

Think in OOB rules as a base than will allow players mod the game at their pleisure

It will take longer to set up for France than the amount of time that they will actually be in the game.

Isn’t the navy going to be scuttled when France falls?

@Brain:

Isn’t the navy going to be scuttled when France falls?

I don’t think the French fleet is going to be scuttled.

@Imperious:

France will be split into 3 territories. Indeed you cannot attack the same territory from the Med and the Atlantic. There is a central territory called France (it contains Paris). It has an IC. It does not touch coast. Coastal territories of the country (France) are worth far less than central France. No buffer between Paris territory and German border. France has two major ICs (This might change to one major and one minor). France will have a major or minor IC on the Atlantic coast. French fleet will have its own turn sequence… It will be controlled probably by the British player, however. Like any power, if the capital falls it cannot produce new units until it is liberated. France will fall! How many axis units it takes with it is what is in question. France can be liberated… In which case it will receive and activate its own economy. It will also receive a certain amount of infantry units (free) that are immediately placed in the game. Viva le France!

So France is to the Europe edition, as China is to the Pacific edition?

@idk_iam_swiss:

So France is to the Europe edition, as China is to the Pacific edition?

Approximately, yes.  They’re going to mostly be a distraction/annoyance to the Germans as China is to Japan, except since France only has 3 land territories the annoyance factor will be more with the navy.

No, France will not be like China. France will not pop dudes (worst) but will have no ACME wall (let’s pray for it). The funny thing is that Free France income will be useless for allies until axis conquer it … so you can guess that gamey axis players will exploit this semi-bug and will ignore Free France territories. We really need ignore captured capitals rules in this game because Free France and Sea Lion can be mayor problems. It’s annoying that Larry continues sticking to them

france will fall G1. they fell like dominos against the german wehrmacht. they were so sure of themselves, that the germans would attack their maginot-line. suprise, they did not. i just cant undersztand why all you guys want france to play a role in this game, its bound to fall. hitler wouldnt let himself have two front on mainland europe. i will serve sauerkraut and bayer in moscow by G5.

@anderb:

france will fall G1. they fell like dominos against the german wehrmacht. they were so sure of themselves, that the germans would attack their maginot-line. suprise, they did not. i just cant undersztand why all you guys want france to play a role in this game, its bound to fall. hitler wouldnt let himself have two front on mainland europe. i will serve sauerkraut and bayer in moscow by G5.

LOL, you sound like the Germans’ Wehrmacht, too, already pre-destined for victory, speaking as if it was ordained by the heavens.  Don’t forget dice will play some factor in A and A too.  Dice only make it more likely for certain events to happen, not perfect certitude.  Watch on some games Germany loses so much steam taking France that they cease to be a factor for several rounds and end up needing to be bailed out by Italy and/or Japan later on.

Really, the French weren’t all too unprepared for the war to come, as the Maginot-line did its job superbly, funneling German troops into the Low Countries to meet the dug-in BEF and roughly half the French army.  The only downside was that French planners did not expect the Germans to send massive armor formations through the supposedly impassable Ardennes and across the Meuse River without taking a fortified bridge crossing (pontoons! with tanks! yeah right!)  The lighter tanks the Germans had at the start of WWII were ideal for running through “impassable” territory; heavier tanks would have bogged down the advance then.

Hitler’s original plan for invading France was for a repeat of the Schliffen manuever right on through the Low Countries again as performed earlier in WWI, and had the high command not changed his mind and rerouted the Panzer divisions through the Ardennes to cut the Allied armies in two, history might have taken a very different course!

I just hope that Germany won’t be like another Japan: able to kill France on the 1st turn AND eliminate almost all or all british/french naval units(In P40, the japs can destroy all allied ships except the Indian and San Francisco navy).

I could totally see that happening. They over develop Germany. Giving them a TON of units. All placed within ranged of the UK. UK falls G1….And can take Canada( sorry Canada fanboys) in a few rolls of the dice. While Building up the forces to take out Russia All on G2

Believe it or not, the success of the Germans in France had nothing to do with Hitler or the General staff, but much more to do with the boldness and genius of German divisional commanders, as has ever been the case in German military history. Had Heinz Guiderian(sp?) not disobeyed direct orders to halt his advance at the Senne river in France and wait for the infantry, the battle of France could have been a very different story.

Either way, the game begins after this fact, and after the BEF had been driven from mainland Europe. I expect France’s central province to fall about 90% of the time to a concentrated German attack on G1. After that, it will be mostly a mopping up campagin to control the rest of mainland France. If the Germans choose to venture elsewhere and not concentrate on this province I give them a 60 to 50% chance of success. However, after that, its up to the individual players as to what to do with France. There is no Vichy rule and this game dosent go in depth enough to represent a peoples will to fight and resist, or lack there as the case may be. This is not a bad thing, as I feel like it would just bog the game down. I still strongly recommend playing France like China after the fall of mainland France, with nothing but inf. builds.