Well, I suppose the US economy could go up if they took some DEI, but really, if that’s happening, that it’s pretty much over for the Japanese anyway.
Not in my game :-) Func really likes to snipe at those DEI islands.
I have a few thoughts to share on the subject of the J1 attack.
First off, I have never noticed anyone mention a J1 attack on Hawaii. Is there something in the errata that prevents this? In my most recent game, I, as Japan, took Hawaii and the Philippines first turn, and they were unable to take it back US1. Here’s how:
-Fleet in Carolines + SZ19 head over to Philippines
-Fleet in SZ6 all head to Hawaii and take it
-On US1 the attacking fleet have a roughly 50/50 chance of taking Hawaii back, and they lostA J1 attack like you described on Hawaii (assuming the tactical bomber scrambles to prevent the BBs + CA from firing) has a chance of success of 37%, defenders will survive 54%). If you lose, the US + ANZAC can land all their planes there, to try to prevent J from taking Hawaii on J2. Unless J takes Hawaii and its naval base the IJN fleet has reduced mobility and meanwhile transports send to Hawaii are not being used on the DEI or in China.
It is a major gamble for Japan. If it works then the US will be out of E. Pacific. If it doesn’t, then Japan just suffered a setback.
For Japan to invade Hawaii on J1, they would need to bring all three transports with 1 armor, 1 artillery and 3 infantry for a better chance of success. 5 units hitting at 1.5 vs 4 units hitting at 1.5 for the US (assuming the tactical bomber scrambles to prevent shore bombardment). Japan comes out with a very slight advantage.
I definitely think the US needs to buy bases. Wake naval base is interesting, another good one, if you can get a suicide transport in, is an airbase on a DEI island. Dump planes, and Japan’s going to struggle to get that vital bonus.
The problem I had as US was stretched supply lines once you extend yourself beyond Hawaii.
US occupied Truk or Guam is vulnerable to a counter attack from Japan.
To prevent this I would spend a turn as Japan buying subs to deter the US fleet from coming too close.
The solution for US is to wait a couple of turns to build up an unassailable fleet; but do you have the time?
The cheap way to do it is planes and airbases. If there are transports in the square and japan has subs, you need a couple of destroyers there too. If you have figs + tacs on a chain of airbases the island air garrisons can trade places and mess up anything in between on the way.
Now you will need other fleet for offensive naval operations. In the specific case of an India rush, you should have a lot of freedom to take islands - with suicide transports if necessary, then dump anzac fighters on them. If you can get an airbase and a decent stack on java or another dei island, you can inflict horrible damage on the japanese fleet.
I had a wee look at this J1 rush, am going to give it some more tries, but it seems to me that to take India J3 a gap will be left somewhere, the allies need to aggressively-but-cheaply push into that.
I had a wee look at this J1 rush, am going to give it some more tries, but it seems to me that to take India J3 a gap will be left somewhere, the allies need to aggressively-but-cheaply push into that.
I keep reading about the Japanese taking India on J3, and I’d have to agree that there is going to be a “gap” in there somewhere. I don’t see the Japanese taking the DEI on J2, and then India on J3.
Is there someone who could briefly outline the moves the Japanese take in getting to India on J3? :-)
I think I read in a post somewhere that Japan needed Burma on J2 to land planes? That seems to me to be a fairly easily countered move by the British on B2, if that is in fact the case. :?
That, plus the fact that the British have two ships to block Japanese naval moves down in that area as well. I’m not saying the Japanese can’t take India on J3, just that it would seem to me that in order to do that, the Japanese would have to rush right by the DEI.
I’m not saying the Japanese can’t take India on J3, just that it would seem to me that in order to do that, the Japanese would have to rush right by the DEI.
That’s just it. Sure, the Japs could take India J3, I suppose, but is that really optimal? I’m not convinced that faster is always better.
My last game I let India live for a while (kept it contained - building 1-2 infantry per turn) and crushed it when I had much higher odds. I won in J9 by taking New South Wales and India at the same time. I know India’s worth 8 per turn, but otherwise, I don’t see the rush, when India can’t go anywhere, do anything, or collect much money.
And back to the original question of the post - I can’t imagine waiting to attack, as Japan, so right there the game is “broken” in that I don’t see a hard choice, deciding whether to attack J1, J2, J3. All those DoW rules and such are lost on me, because I always attack J1. You can sink every transport on the board except one by WUS, so why not? USA + 40 is not enough of a deterrent.
I’m not saying the Japanese can’t take India on J3, just that it would seem to me that in order to do that, the Japanese would have to rush right by the DEI.
That’s just it. Sure, the Japs could take India J3, I suppose, but is that really optimal? I’m not convinced that faster is always better.
My last game I let India live for a while (kept it contained - building 1-2 infantry per turn) and crushed it when I had much higher odds. I won in J9 by taking New South Wales and India at the same time. I know India’s worth 8 per turn, but otherwise, I don’t see the rush, when India can’t go anywhere, do anything, or collect much money.
And back to the original question of the post - I can’t imagine waiting to attack, as Japan, so right there the game is “broken” in that I don’t see a hard choice, deciding whether to attack J1, J2, J3. All those DoW rules and such are lost on me, because I always attack J1. You can sink every transport on the board except one by WUS, so why not? USA + 40 is not enough of a deterrent.
Oh hell, I forgot Japan gets an extra 5 IPCs for India, is that right?
Anyway, I think the J2 & J3 options might be there for the Japanese to set up a KAF strat, or something along those lines. I think it’s kinda neat, keeps the game from stagnating into the same ole’, same ole’ all the time. :-)
Mabey it all depends on who is playing as japan :?
@Open:
Mabey it all depends on who is playing as japan :?
I have the sneaking feeling that in this game, Japan isn’t going to be able to do everything it wants to, all the time.
With this strategy, what should the UK build? Infantry to delay or planes to escape death and fight on?
Also, for Britain, I would pull out of Singapore and move that whole force to Shan State. The British & ANZAC could take Siam turn 2, giving the ANZAC player a crucial 5 point bonus if they are able to move their infantry into Siam. The British are also in a position to attack French Indochina on B2 as well. At the very least, they are in a position to deny Burma to Japan on turn 2.
/b]
Can’t Japan hit that with 2 inf and 5-10 planes? Then all the infantry die and japan only loses a few planes.
Can’t Japan hit that with 2 inf and 5-10 planes? Then all the infantry die and japan only loses a few planes.
Japan can do damn near anything it wants to in this game, and those troops can be whacked in Singapore just as easily as in Shan State; if that’s what the Japanese player wants to do.
My thinking on that particular move, and it really depends on the game situation, is that on J1, Japan may have taken the PI and possibly Java. If that is the case after J1, then one could deduce that the Japanese player may be contemplating trying to go for the other three DEI islands with it’s three transports on J2.
If Japan has decided on squashing the garrison in Singapore, moving the troops, or not moving them isn’t going to make much difference. It’s possible, that by evacuating Singapore, that the Japanese may be satisfied with it’s occupation and not concern themselves with chasing down it’s retreating defenders right at that moment. Again, if the Japanese were targeting Singapore though, it really doesn’t make much difference.
If the Japanese weren’t targeting Singapore right off, and were looking more at the DEI, then by just allowing the troops to sit in Singapore just means that the Japanese will get around to stomping them in their own good time. Whereas moving them might allow them to take up either an opportunity into Siam or Vietnam, or at the very least a chance to fall back on India. Possibly also denying the Japanese Burma at a key moment.
The two Japanes troops that start out in Siam, sometimes one of them will take Vietnam on J1, then that troop will be needed to counter-attack into the Chinese territory with the Burma road on J2. That could leave British troops in Shan State with a chance to attack Siam or Vietnam.
Just a thought on trying to do something with those troops as opposed to having them sit there and get steamrolled game after game. :-)
I haven’t played the game that much and I believe that a J1 could make a strong opening. On the other hand I don’t think that the game is “broken” and there are some downsides to this tactic. If the ANZAC are under siege of the japanese, what is stopping the US from send a hell load of aircraft (bombers) in combination with there fleet towards the Japanese? If the Japanese want to attack mutiple targets like the UK “fleet”, the sub/transport of the DEI and Hawai there fleet is scattered and are easy pickings for the ANZAC fighters and US planes. The British could team up with the Chinese and counter attack the Japanese in the Asian main land.
Well, it’s looking pretty good that I’ll be heading back out Dayton-way for another 15-18 hour AAP:40 game session on the 21st. We’ll (Buckeyeboy & I ) get a chance to see if the Americans can get an effective strategy going against Japan.
I also realized that in some of my posts here in this thread, that I was incorrectly calling the Marianas the Marshall islands! :-o
Hell, I’ve been watching the HBO series The Pacific the past 5 weeks now, and I can’t wait to get another game session going! You here that TA!?! :lol:
We thought the game was probably going to be balanced when we were just starting the Allied strategy I’ve been going on about in this thread, when we decided to try the J1 attack deal. We thought the J1 attack was some mystical super attack, but it turns out to be basically the same as the J2 or J3 attack, as far as Allied strategy goes.
So next Wednesday, we’ll get back to basics with the Allies, although we do like the J1 attack the best for them. At least, I think it’s the best Japanese turn to attack. What say you there, TA?
I guess I’ll find out Wednesday. 8-)
I totally agree. J1 attack is the way to go. You give the US $40, but you get to destroy a US trans, a Brit BB and 2 trans, and now I’m thinking you may be able to take out the ANZAC DD and trans also. All at very little cost to J, depending on the dice, and it takes away the immediate naval offensive punch of the Allies. The only Allied trans is setting on the west coast of the US.
Can’t wait to test some scenarios on the 21st f2f.
Well, I just finished playing 2 more games, once as the allies and once as the axis.
As Japan I restricted myself to J2 attack. My opponent attacked on J3 (He won’t do that again. Next time J1 attack for sure, he says.)
Rather than a J1 attack “breaking” the game, I think it makes it less enjoyable, particularly for the UK player. Yeah, I know you can evacuate the planes to Australia before India falls, but what fun is that?
After J1 attack, China and UK get stomped.
OK, after J2 they also get stomped but at least UK gets to do something with their fleet (occupying 2 money islands and linking up their RN). UK also gets lots more money to spend for at least one turn.
In a 2 player game it’s not that big a deal, but in a multiplayer game J2 attack is the way to go.
@The:
@Frontovik:
we did j1 al the time, and japan almost never won
yes, it might get slim overproduction than allies, but allies can easily block convoys, while japan needs a 8 dollar ship to free them, while it only cost 6 to jam them
simple math, and japan ain’t in position to take australia or hawaiiElaborate on easily block convoys. Did your Japanese fleet just sit in the Arctic ocean and do nothing? Or perhaps they took a vacation in Samoa? Or did you just scuttle them all in the beginning in favor of world peace? :-D And the math clearly favors a J1 attack. I’m just not sure that it’s unbeatable.
what bout phillipines?
or do you split up your navy at every convoy, from japan to sumatra?
then i’d gladly play against you as allies ;)
Rather than a J1 attack “breaking” the game, I think it makes it less enjoyable, particularly for the UK player. Yeah, I know you can evacuate the planes to Australia before India falls, but what fun is that?
After J1 attack, China and UK get stomped.
Agreed, we’ve thought from day one with this game that the 5 player billing it gets is more than just a little stretch. China isn’t enough to keep anyone interested in a game, and now it seems obvious that Britian isn’t either.
OK, after J2 they also get stomped but at least UK gets to do something with their fleet (occupying 2 money islands and linking up their RN). UK also gets lots more money to spend for at least one turn.
In a 2 player game it’s not that big a deal, but in a multiplayer game J2 attack is the way to go.
We thought for a short time that a 3 player game might not be bad, with one player taking China-Britian-ANZAC, but that’s about as many people as we can see playing this game together at once.
It seems more suited as a 2 player game, IMHO.
Agreed, we’ve thought from day one with this game that the 5 player billing it gets is more than just a little stretch. China isn’t enough to keep anyone interested in a game, and now it seems obvious that Britian isn’t either.
I thought it was billed as a 4-player game, with China being controlled by one of the other players? Though I will admit that 4 players in this game would still not be great, as again whoever plays UK will probably be out relatively soon…
I’m beginning to think the J3 attack is a tad bit underrated round these parts.
Ok, if the J1 attack is to strong for the allies, learn to throw a dice. If you can master rolling a dice to get the number you want, you could easily make the J1 attack that of a suicide bomber. I know learning to throw a dice they way you want is harder than I make it sound, but if it works, the Japan will be reeling from their losses.