Seperation of Church and State

Religion is dumb.
Give it enough time and any sort of relgious rhetoric will be gone from general public arenas.

Yanny and Ghoul, I don’t think it will be going any where soon. As I understand it, the President, the House, and with narrow margins the Supreme Court and the Senate support the pledge.

Just look at the Supreme Court’s ruling on vouchers. The problem is that the Catholic Schools are the only ones willing to take the poor, they make up somehting like 90% of the private schools that were not set up only for the really rich. :o

The problem with these type of situations is the guy who comes out and disagrees looks like a jerk, when every one else is thinking the same thing but are afraid to say it.

For examle the Law in Kentucky that makes it Illegal to engage in premarital sex. Everyone thinks its stupid and most people violate the law, but If you come out and say “we should get rid of this law” you must be an immoral jerk who is out screwing horny housewives while there husbands are at work.

If you think premarital sex is immoral then don’t do it! Don’t mess with me when I’m trying to get my freek on! ;) (I am actualy married so this doesn’t aply to me anymore, but I still remember the good old days!)

Personaly I think we waste way to much time making ignorant laws. If it isn’t hurting you or someone else, mind your oun buisness.

Of course laws that say stuff like you can’t engage in fornication are stupid, that just goes with out saying.

But identitfying ourselves as a culturally theist nation is diferent.

About Yanny saying that it is the Christian God being refered to (though it would technically be the Jewish and Muslim God to), one thing to understand is that a huge percentage of those who are theists in America are christians. Something like 4/5s of the Arabs in the U.S. are Christian because they fled to the U.S. to practice their religion.

Not neccessarily though is that specific any way

Yanny and Ghoul, I don’t think it will be going any where soon. As I understand it, the President, the House, and with narrow margins the Supreme Court and the Senate support the pledge.

The USA is certaily the christian “protector” of the modern era, not only because of the strong christian faith but also because of the strong judeo-christian sense of moral (good, evil…). I really don’t think the jugement will stay… If it does i would be very surprised…

@dezrtfish:

The problem with these type of situations is the guy who comes out and disagrees looks like a jerk, when every one else is thinking the same thing but are afraid to say it.

For examle the Law in Kentucky that makes it Illegal to engage in premarital sex. Everyone thinks its stupid and most people violate the law, but If you come out and say “we should get rid of this law” you must be an immoral jerk who is out screwing horny housewives while there husbands are at work.

If you think premarital sex is immoral then don’t do it! Don’t mess with me when I’m trying to get my freek on! ;) (I am actualy married so this doesn’t aply to me anymore, but I still remember the good old days!)

Personaly I think we waste way to much time making ignorant laws. If it isn’t hurting you or someone else, mind your oun buisness.

LOL, getting your freek on…that’s some funny shit, I’m laughing my ass off.

“For examle the Law in Kentucky that makes it Illegal to engage in premarital sex.”

Ha, this is worse than prohibition! 8) Of course California has it’s share of honkey laws. The Soda Tax more recently. What are they trying to do, not get people to drink Soda with some silly tax to help get rid of obesity!? Personally I’m against pemarital sex, but to take the words of Voltaire, “I may not agree with what you do in the privacy of your own bedroom, but I will defend you to your death for your right to do it.” :roll:

“Also, when we say “Under God”, we all know we’re supposed to be talking about the Christian God.”

Christianity isn’t the only religion with a monotheist God, there are plenty of others (I’m sure people have mentioned this). I may not believe in this “Christian God,” but I do believe in a single creator.

“In Tennesse, an Athiest cannot hold public office.”

Ha, this is almost as dumb as the “no premarital sex law.”

“But identitfying ourselves as a culturally theist nation is diferent.”

The overwhelming majority of the country is theist. We identify China as a rice eating nation, right? Let’s say 1 out of 1 billion don’t eat rice. Does this change our outlook? In this case of religion, the majority cultural identifiction wins.

“Give it enough time and any sort of relgious rhetoric will be gone from general public arenas.”

Who knows? Our country is getting more PC all the time. There are already PC actions in Texas (history teachers can no longer teach the phrase “Remember the Alimo” because it might offend Mexicans) and Texas is suppose to be the last remaining place of any “Real Men” (ie “I don’t do 39 cent Cheeseburgers”)! Heck even the newer additions of the American Bible are becoming unisexual (Jesus is no longer refered to as the son of God, but the Child of God)

I’m not saying that religion is a bad thing or anything because I personally find it a good thing for most people but when it comes to that separation thing, I REALLY wish they could just stick with it… I know it wouldn’t happen unless things go like they did in the game Alpha Centauri(Great game : :) ) but I guess I’m just a bit paranoid about the church gaining too much power with the govt. like the Catholic church had with so many countries back in the middle ages in Europe.

@FinsterniS:

Yanny and Ghoul, I don’t think it will be going any where soon. As I understand it, the President, the House, and with narrow margins the Supreme Court and the Senate support the pledge.

The USA is certaily the christian “protector” of the modern era, not only because of the strong christian faith but also because of the strong judeo-christian sense of moral (good, evil…). I really don’t think the jugement will stay… If it does i would be very surprised…

this would make the USA kind of a handy sanctuary (santcus . . . holy) given the number of anti-Christian nations in the world. It’s nice to have a place to practice one’s religion in relative peace. isn’t that how the USA began as a nation? kind of a protectorate of oppressed Christians?

I would like to say politics should be taken out of politics and that we could return to the “Era of Good Feelings” (ie no political parties). But in today’s government, that’s almost impossible. As George Washington even said, “It’s a necessary evil.”

PS: Yanny, why don’t you make a poll on the Pledge of Alligence question?

what exactly is this Pledge about? Being overseas i haven’t heard anything about it.
But for the separation of state and religion: Isn’t that one of the things that the USA opposed strongly in the Iran, that they have laws which correspond to the religion of the majority of their ppl? Isn’t Israel more of a Theocracy than a Democracy?
TO me, the US is the most fundamental christian state (see the dumb laws above) in the world, and strangely enough it uses its strength to go against muslim fundamentalist states for the reason that they are fundamentalists, but spares Israel of the same treatment, even though they are pretty close to the same fundamentalism just following another faith.

Some people want to declare the Pledge of Allegiance unconstitutional and remove it from school and other places (or at least amend it), which I find totally ridiculous – even as myself not being part of this Christian “God.”

"It should be removed. Its unconstitutional, and was only passed in 1954 because Eisenhower fed propaganda to the US citizens about the “Athiest Soviets”.

In the Newdow Case (Pledge of Allegiance ruled unconstitutional) the fundamental question is what the First Amendment’s Establishment Clause means.

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…” is clearly written to guard against the establishment of a state-sponsored religion. However, exercising the right of religion cannot be infringed.

However law doesn’t normally condition ones behavior on how it will affect others around them. Instead, we are told to avert our eyes and turn our heads away from something we find objectionable.

The Pledge of Allegiance isn’t the only document to use the words “God,” implying a Creator. Let’s look at the The Declaration of Independence the Founders write:

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the Powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which “the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God” entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are “endowed by their Creator with” certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.
…
We, therefore, the Representatives of the United States of America, in General Congress, assembled, “appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world” for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the name, and by authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States;
…
And for the support of this Declaration, “with a firm reliance on the Protection of Divine Providence”, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

What are we to do now if the Pledge of Allegiance is upheld as unconstitutional? Do we amend the Declaration of Independence itself next?

poor poor US of A

First of all, the Declaration of Independence is not an official document of the United States and does not have any bearing on laws or practices in modern America. I think the pledge of alliegence is a really dumb idea, why should we have schoolchildren recite any kind of nationalistic slogan, speech, ect. at all? It sounds a little bit like what those godless communists would have done in the middle of the cold war. Ok kiddies, it’s time once again to pound into you the virtues of living in this great nation by reciting something together; doesn’t it make you feel good to be part of this great nation where everyone can say the exactly the same thing together. Not only do I find the pledge completely inaccurate and untrue, but that sort of conformity bothers me a great deal.

Of course the declaration of independence is an official U.S. document. it brought the U.S. into being.