Seperation of Church and State

You still haven’t convinced me about the whole French-Catholic thing. You know, Atheists in America do not consider America a religious country, and they would dispute such an insinuation much as you do.

Tell me Fisternis, how many people are there in France? 100 million? How many French have you met? A couple thousand? Of those, how many do know their religious affiliation? Some of them? And you know better than some kind of census (and even if I believe that it is a projection, like Yanny said, something like 85% of people are the religion of their parents) ???

Like I said before, you should never trust just one person’s opinion on this matter. France is a big country and there are plenty of French dudes there.

@yourbuttocks:

You still haven’t convinced me about the whole French-Catholic thing. You know, Atheists in America do not consider America a religious country, and they would dispute such an insinuation much as you do.

Well, that would be irrational. They have no survey from official agencies to support their ideas anyway…

Also I never said France was irreligious, atheist are still not the major faction. But we are not 90% catholic.

Tell me Fisternis, how many people are there in France? 100 million? How many French have you met? A couple thousand? Of those, how many do know their religious affiliation? Some of them? And you know better than some kind of census (and even if I believe that it is a projection, like Yanny said, something like 85% of people are the religion of their parents) ???

~60 000 000

And what you just said is not valid from a statistic point of view, by taking only 100 person and the street and ask them what they think about religion you will have a good idea, that is probability. You just have to walk in the street, listen to our politician, look at church, listen to people to know France is not as religions as America, and there is a huge difference. If i had to say, just from what i think of France i would say…

15% Atheist
20% Agnostic
20% Reincarnationist
The rest is a mixt of Theist/Deist/people who don’t know, not a lot of people are really into religion.

…with more Atheist/Agnostic in university (like most country, certainly even in the US)

Also i can hardly imagine you really think the “85% people stick with the religion of their parent” can be applied to the French people. Bouddhism is rising quite fast, like agnosticism, people do not seem to stick a lot. You seem to forget France is full of French, and French culture is not the same as American’s culture. That is a little Americocentic to think French are subject to the same behavior as American, we had a lot of atheist thinker in the past 2 century, Voltaire, Legendre, Zola…

@yourbuttocks:

We suck at Math, Fisternis? Where did John Nash live? Where is MIT, JPL, Los Alamos, etc. located?

Ok, One mathmatician out of how many?
And did you have a look how many ppl with US-american-citizenship study math or sciences in the USA? How many professors and post-docs/staff who work in the US where born there?
….
Now comes, we may not be good, but we know how to buy the good ones…
BUT: this is not what yb said.

@yourbuttocks:

Besides, Fisternis, what French Mathematicians put a man on the moon?

Was that the german rocketbuiler? Or the american NASA dude who mixed up inches and cm and lost a multi-million Mars-probe?

:) :)

@F_alk:

@yourbuttocks:

Besides, Fisternis, what French Mathematicians put a man on the moon?

Was that the german rocketbuiler? Or the american NASA dude who mixed up inches and cm and lost a multi-million Mars-probe?

:) :)

Ja !

If the american were able to sent someone on the moon it was in a great part due to the technology they had steal from the german (they also got some german scientist)…

@FinsterniS:

@F_alk:

@yourbuttocks:

Besides, Fisternis, what French Mathematicians put a man on the moon?

Was that the german rocketbuiler? Or the american NASA dude who mixed up inches and cm and lost a multi-million Mars-probe?

:) :)

Ja !

If the american were able to sent someone on the moon it was in a great part due to the technology they had steal from the german (they also got some german scientist)…

of course it’s not a bad idea to look at a country’s ability to construct an environment favorable to the study and application of certain subjects. Certainly America has been quite successful in that regard. Even if primary and secondary schooling has been a little poor in regards to math, i think it is difficult to contend that America does not encourage persuit of advanced mathematical knowledge and applications as well or better than any other country. It’s not merely the people, but the environment.

Also the work of people 200 years ago wrt mathematics is hardly germaine to discussion on YB’s point in that if America had been as advanced as European nations at the time, certainly it might well have had its share of advanced theorems etc. upon which to build its science. That’s like saying “well, Osler’s contribution to medicine isn’t that great given that Hippocrates was Greek”.

Also German rocket-builders . . . i think as much praise should be given them as should designers of atomic (or any other) weapons of mass-destruction. Well done. Way to apply math in order to more easily kill your fellow man.

CC

“If the american were able to sent someone on the moon it was in a great part due to the technology they had steal from the german (they also got some german scientist)…”

Hey, that’s what makes America so great. We can assimilate different people from different countries all into America in the pursuit of knowledge. Often, you don’t see that in other countries, which are much more “closed doors.” If I remember correctly, the first Director of NASA was Wernher Von Braun who’s Saturn rockets put our men on the moon. Yet, he was also the same person responsible for building V2 rockets in Germany during WWII!

I just answer YB’s ironic remark, i do not want to attack americans

@FinsterniS:

I just answer YB’s ironic remark, i do not want to attack americans

you know what else is ironic? i many times find it amusing to “attack” Americans, however i think my “for” comments has outweighed my “con” comments. That’s pretty weird for the Crypt.

(note: - by “Americans” i refer to the US of A and its (lack of)culture, foreign policies, dumb people, etc. - not so much many of the individual Americans who i have met and grown to love, as well as many of my relatives)

“(note: - by “Americans” i refer to the US of A and its (lack of)culture, foreign policies, dumb people, etc. - not so much many of the individual Americans who i have met and grown to love, as well as many of my relatives)”

I am often around fellow Americans who don’t know of their own “American” culture (also responsible for the “American Dream” and the Anarchist movement). Rest assured, there is an American culture that is alive and well. Maybe it is so permeating that we forget to realize it.

For foreign policy, America has that up the wazoo. If I was in charge, less foreign policy!

Hey, lets make the would safe for dumb people! Ignorance is bliss.

First, Fisternis, I did not claim that France was Catholic. I simply said that the MAJORITY of the French are Catholic, just like the MAJORITY of Americans are Protestant, just like the MAJORITY of Israelis are Jewish and the MAJORITY of Afgans are Muslim.

Second, the fact that are early space program was dominated by Nazis from Germany, hey, thats the American way. Its why we put a man on the moon.

majoriwhat ? :D

I still don’t think the majority is catholic, the majority is theist, like in most country sadly, but not very “religious”. I am not trying to make dangerous deduction like; french are more scientific, french are more clever, french are superior and blablabla. Sure i think the fact they read a lot help a little; but it is more cultural, french like good sex, good wine and liberty, things the catholic church saw as being “bestial”.

And i am curious, there is any statistic on religion in the USA in university ? More Atheist/Agnostic ?

@the:

Also German rocket-builders . . . i think as much praise should be given them as should designers of atomic (or any other) weapons of mass-destruction. Well done. Way to apply math in order to more easily kill your fellow man.

Well, actually, the Manhattan project did not employ that many germans. Sure, germans did a lot of the theory before that, and the the first fission was done by a group in germany, but that is not the actual bomb.
I know that Fermi (italian), Feynman (the greatest physicist of the last century IMHO, and US american), Oppenheimer (US) worked there.

If you believe the german scientist working on the uranium porject, then they were looking for a nuclear power plant more than a bomb (and got funding for the first and not for the latter)

Wow, you’re pretty tall.

@F_alk:

@the:

Also German rocket-builders . . . i think as much praise should be given them as should designers of atomic (or any other) weapons of mass-destruction. Well done. Way to apply math in order to more easily kill your fellow man.

Well, actually, the Manhattan project did not employ that many germans. Sure, germans did a lot of the theory before that, and the the first fission was done by a group in germany, but that is not the actual bomb.
I know that Fermi (italian), Feynman (the greatest physicist of the last century IMHO, and US american), Oppenheimer (US) worked there.

If you believe the german scientist working on the uranium porject, then they were looking for a nuclear power plant more than a bomb (and got funding for the first and not for the latter)

you forgot Bohr - who, like Nobel, was convinced that he was going to bring peace to the world through his contribution.

@cystic:

@F_alk:

@the:

Also German rocket-builders . . . i think as much praise should be given them as should designers of atomic (or any other) weapons of mass-destruction. Well done. Way to apply math in order to more easily kill your fellow man.

Well, actually, the Manhattan project did not employ that many germans. Sure, germans did a lot of the theory before that, and the the first fission was done by a group in germany, but that is not the actual bomb.
I know that Fermi (italian), Feynman (the greatest physicist of the last century IMHO, and US american), Oppenheimer (US) worked there.

If you believe the german scientist working on the uranium porject, then they were looking for a nuclear power plant more than a bomb (and got funding for the first and not for the latter)

you forgot Bohr - who, like Nobel, was convinced that he was going to bring peace to the world through his contribution.

Bohr didn’t work in either of these projects. Certainly not on Manhattan, maybe “part time” on the other. Even though he did the first fission, he didn’t contribute more to the bomb. And Bohr, after hearing of the explosion of the bomb, nearly committed suicide (or fell into a big depression at least). I don’t think he had a bomb in mind when he first split a nucleus, and therefore i don’t think he thought this would bring peace.

@F_alk:

@cystic:

@F_alk:

@the:

Also German rocket-builders . . . i think as much praise should be given them as should designers of atomic (or any other) weapons of mass-destruction. Well done. Way to apply math in order to more easily kill your fellow man.

Well, actually, the Manhattan project did not employ that many germans. Sure, germans did a lot of the theory before that, and the the first fission was done by a group in germany, but that is not the actual bomb.
I know that Fermi (italian), Feynman (the greatest physicist of the last century IMHO, and US american), Oppenheimer (US) worked there.

If you believe the german scientist working on the uranium porject, then they were looking for a nuclear power plant more than a bomb (and got funding for the first and not for the latter)

you forgot Bohr - who, like Nobel, was convinced that he was going to bring peace to the world through his contribution.

Bohr didn’t work in either of these projects. Certainly not on Manhattan, maybe “part time” on the other. Even though he did the first fission, he didn’t contribute more to the bomb. And Bohr, after hearing of the explosion of the bomb, nearly committed suicide (or fell into a big depression at least). I don’t think he had a bomb in mind when he first split a nucleus, and therefore i don’t think he thought this would bring peace.

You’ll have to forgive me. I did come by this information honestly (maybe not that Bohr worked directly on the M-project, but that he did contribute to it) but a long time ago. He did strike me as being less than naive, realizing that he would have to eventually serve Germany or its enemies. The allies realized this too and England (well, a Canadian with England) smuggled him out of the country. My understanding was that initially the full scope of what he was contributing to did not hit him until afterwards, but that he was the consumate scientist.

And Yanny, my mom’s 5’2" as well. I’m 6’2". In some countries i feel like a giant :)