Re: Field Marshal Games Pieces Project Discussion thread

@reloader-1:

The target has not changed once in the last four Axis & Allies games - the ONLY reason they have had different colors in previous editions is that they changed them to match current standardized colors.

For example, the much vaunted Axis & Allies Pacific: The color change in it was made from Red Japanese to Orange Japanese to bring the colors into standardization with the Axis & Allies color scheme. The US and UK were left unchanged, so much so that I can use F6F Hellcats from Pacific.

I don’t see what is so difficult to understand about this concept - after some initial changes, Avalon Hill has standardized the colors. The second edition of Axis & Allies Europe has the 1942 piece colors, except for Germany, which is still gray and not black (that change came about in A&A Battle of the Bulge). The second edition of Axis & Allies Pacific also has 1942 piece colors, with the exception of China, which has now been standardized in A&A 50 and A&A Pacific 1940 as lime green.

I should know a little bit about this subject - while not being Imperious Leader in my games collection, I have about 3-4 copies of each version of Axis & Allies game released, including the Nova Games version. I can trace exactly how piece colors have changed from edition to edition, and some Avalon Hill missteps (greenish UK in Revised?!). However, that is old news, and one should be able to draw some lessons that for the past four years colors have been exactly standardized and every single game in print has the same color scheme.

As to the German color, some of you need your eyes checked. The current Axis & Allies German color has a RGB value of 10/10/10 (in other words, indistinguishable from black to the human eye). I have perfect color perception - the closest I can identify the Spring 1942 German color is to a RGB value of 3/3/3 (pure black).

I’m sorry for such a long post - it is just that looking at an old copy of Axis & Allies Europe tells you nothing about the current state of pieces and colors in the Axis & Allies franchise.

Reloader is right on and you guys know it!!!  For some reason you don’t want this to change.  You guys remind me of the old foh-gies that keep playing Classic and despise all the revisions since.  I don’t understand it.  Your reasoning and arguments have been soundly bunked out by reloader- he’s right on the money!!!
:? :? :?

The colors haven’t changed since Revised (early 2004) and they have kept them in all of their games since- you guys have NO idea what you are talking about!! :x

@reloader-1:

As to the German color, some of you need your eyes checked. The current Axis & Allies German color has a RGB value of 10/10/10 (in other words, indistinguishable from black to the human eye). I have perfect color perception - the closest I can identify the Spring 1942 German color is to a RGB value of 3/3/3 (pure black).

I’m sorry for such a long post - it is just that looking at an old copy of Axis & Allies Europe tells you nothing about the current state of pieces and colors in the Axis & Allies franchise.

Couldn’t have said this better- excellent post!!! :-)

@questioneer:

Reloader is right on and you guys know it!!!…The colors haven’t changed since Revised (early 2004) and they have kept them in all of their games since- you guys have NO idea what you are talking about!!

No, you appear to have misunderstood what Reloader posted. He stated that the colours haven’t changed in the last four games (i.e. since Guadalcanal)- he did not state that they haven’t changed since Revised. Indeed, he agreed that the colours have changed prior to AA50, which they certainly have:

• Germany has alternated through metallic blue, to several shades of gray, to charcoal or black;
• USSR has alternated through at least three different shades of red and reddish brown;
• UK has alternated through several shades of tan and brown, and even lime green;
• US has alternated through several shades of olive green and bright green (although the shades are only slightly different);
• Japan has alternated through several (very) slight shades of orange, and its units were coloured bright red in early editions of Pacific.

However, I think Reloader is correct concerning units from the last four games (Guadalcanal, AA50, AA42, and AAP40) - the units from these four games appear to be perfectly standardized (unlike the units from early editions of Revised, Pacific, Europe, and D-Day). For support, I compared my US and Japanese units from Guadalcanal and AAP40, and they appear identical in colour (unlike my Revised units, which are completely different shades of green and orange, with the green being more noticeably different).

I do have to agree that although WoTC did not follow a standardized colour scheme between Revised and Guadalcanal, they appear to be doing so post-Guadalcanal.

I also agree that the newest WoTC German units look more black than dark gray to me.

Finally, I note that although I would prefer the FMG units to match the WoTC ones, I am willing to accept some slight variations. I also loathe the black plastic chosen for the WoTC German units, and much prefer the FMG steel gray.

@questioneer:

The colors haven’t changed since Revised (early 2004) and they have kept them in all of their games since- you guys have NO idea what you are talking about!! :x

I have to disagree with you both on this point. The fact is that the colors have changed since 2004. For example In D-day & Battle of the Bulge, the British forces represented are almost an off white. Both of these games came out post Revised. What about the lighter gray used for the Germans in D-day? Or how about the dull, almost translucent appearance of both the American & Japanese forces in Guadalcanal? We’re not even getting into how low quality the molds for AA50 & D-day were. I think you guys are obsessing over something that really doesn’t matter. Especially when we have absolutely no guarantee that Wizards won’t change the colors again.

Typing this from my phone - forgive my typos:

D-Day was released in 2004, and early versions had the whitish UK forces. Since then,  the colors have been standardized (even in the horrible quality molds of Anniversary)

Let me make this real simple from a financial standpoint: the costs of units comes primarily from molds, not the actual making of the pieces. Hence, it is relatively easy to change colors when necessary.

That being said, every Axis & Allies game in print, or released in the last four years has been molded in the same colors. The most logical assumption would therefore be to mold FMG’s pieces in the same colors, and IF in a few years the colors change…. Mold a new batch of units in the new colors! Simple, really, when one thinks about it.

@reloader-1:

Let me make this real simple from a financial standpoint: the costs of units comes primarily from molds, not the actual making of the pieces. Hence, it is relatively easy to change colors when necessary.

That being said, every Axis & Allies game in print, or released in the last four years has been molded in the same colors. The most logical assumption would therefore be to mold FMG’s pieces in the same colors, and IF in a few years the colors change…. Mold a new batch of units in the new colors! Simple, really, when one thinks about it.

This seems to make sense to me as well. I have had to paint a few house rule pieces to match my WOTC pieces, but they never really match perfectly. I’d rather have the FMG pieces in the correct color to begin with. And if colors do change, it won’t be a big deal to change accordingly. Plenty house rule people would even buy the “old” colors I bet…

@Variable:

@reloader-1:

Let me make this real simple from a financial standpoint: the costs of units comes primarily from molds, not the actual making of the pieces. Hence, it is relatively easy to change colors when necessary.

That being said, every Axis & Allies game in print, or released in the last four years has been molded in the same colors. The most logical assumption would therefore be to mold FMG’s pieces in the same colors, and IF in a few years the colors change…. Mold a new batch of units in the new colors! Simple, really, when one thinks about it.

This seems to make sense to me as well. I have had to paint a few house rule pieces to match my WOTC pieces, but they never really match perfectly. I’d rather have the FMG pieces in the correct color to begin with. And if colors do change, it won’t be a big deal to change accordingly. Plenty house rule people would even buy the “old” colors I bet…

Maybe we could create a poll on it and leave it to the people???  Shall I start another “petition”???

I guess all in all its not a huge deal, however if the Germans are grey ( I love the black way better) than what will ANZAC be??? can’t be another brown (UK, Italy already), purple???  C’mon, really what are the choices.

I would really like to see some sample pics of a couple of the pieces in the different colors suggested here.  That would really be nice.  Then maybe I could lean towards a more solid decision.

Just took a look at the proto pieces again- WOW- man those pieces are detailed.  With the QUALITY detail of these pieces, they may look great in hot pink, fucia, and lavender!!!  Man we are in for a treat!!!  I’m still blown away!!! :-) :-) :-)

Of course, Feldgrau that was my initial thought, I just didn’t think anyone would agree with me.

As long as FMG makes a set that matches OOB colors, they could make a Feldpink set for all I care  8-)

I hate painting pieces to match - I’d rather they just be molded in plastic the color they should be.

Yes, I have heard that Feldpink goes well with Feldgrau.

@Brain:

Yes, I have heard that Feldpink goes well with Feldgrau.

Feldpink + Feldgrau = Feld Elephant…

If you were hiding in a bell tower, and the Germany army was sweeping through the town below you…  what color would it be?

Not Black

I like Panzer Gray or Grey to represent the German Army not Black.

FMG…

The French Army does not wear blue.

The USSR did no have red uniforms.

Name 1 Japanese that wore Orange kit.

See my point? Colors in this game are an abstraction - who would disagree with a blue French color? Yet, honestly, no one wore that in WWII.

If you really want to go down this path - the Germans did have black uniforms.

Just offering my suggestion and my fervent hope that you make at least a small batch of German units in black.

@reloader-1:

FMG…

The French Army does not wear blue.

The USSR did no have red uniforms.

Name 1 Japanese that wore Orange kit.

See my point? Colors in this game are an abstraction - who would disagree with a blue French color? Yet, honestly, no one wore that in WWII.

If you really want to go down this path - the Germans did have black uniforms.

Just offering my suggestion and my fervent hope that you make at least a small batch of German units in black.

It may be possible in the future, however this is already decided. (Special production run?)

We have to match the COMBAT DICE.  We can not switch-up and abandon our many customers who have COMBAT DICE or AMMO BOXES.  We decided to go GREY way before this project was even announced.  GREY is the ICONIC colour of the German Army.  At this point it is written in stone, like so many historical cases…  our decisions today are limited by our decisions yesterday.

I strongly disagree that you are abandoning your customers if you mold the pieces in black. The Japanese roundel is red and white - yet I do not see you casting the pieces in red (or white).

Personally, I love the German Combat Dice as it is, but I do not see a need to slavishly adhere to the same color - the dice goes really well with black units, and a black dice would probably not look as impressive. That being said, I feel that you would be abandoning these selfsame customers by not allowing them to use the pieces they already have in addition to the ones you will make.

I have made a poll on this matter - I am being vehement on this issue because I strongly feel that it would be in your financial interest to make them black, as well as I believe Combat Unit sales will dwarf Combat Dice sales.

Let me put it another way - Avalon Hill would never have come out with nation specific pieces for Axis & Allies under your logic, as the “decisions today are limited by (…) decisions yesterday”, to quote a well-respected member of the community  :-)

One last thing - stone can be recarved… and made into beautiful objects. (Statue of David by Michelangelo… etc.)(ok, I had to throw that in!)

@FieldMarshalGames:

@reloader-1:

FMG…

The French Army does not wear blue.

The USSR did no have red uniforms.

Name 1 Japanese that wore Orange kit.

See my point? Colors in this game are an abstraction - who would disagree with a blue French color? Yet, honestly, no one wore that in WWII.

If you really want to go down this path - the Germans did have black uniforms.

Just offering my suggestion and my fervent hope that you make at least a small batch of German units in black.

It may be possible in the future, however this is already decided. (Special production run?)

We have to match the COMBAT DICE.  We can not switch-up and abandon our many customers who have COMBAT DICE or AMMO BOXES.  We decided to go GREY way before this project was even announced.  GREY is the ICONIC colour of the German Army.  At this point it is written in stone, like so many historical cases…  our decisions today are limited by our decisions yesterday.

Okay, so lets put the black vs. grey to bed.

Next question will be, what is the color of the ANZACs? We saw the pic of the mock up ANZAC die. Is that the color? It will be very close to OOB, but also close to Germany now.

I know most of us can tell the difference between British and German units, but close colors make it difficult to survey the board. Remember when the Italians were first released? There were a bunch of complaints that it was too close to the color of Russians. We all wanted Italy in Light grey.

Anyway, the darker the grey the better for me. Or will it be like the color of the test moulds?

Variable,

I’m sorry but I’m going to give this issue a little insomnia for a bit. Let the voice of the people decide - let’s see what the poll results are.