German strategy for building AC

[OutsideLime]

I guess I’ll buy 8 infantry and 1 tank.

Unless he started with the Colonial Garrison NA, your son will not be able to place 9 units on UK1.  The United Kingdom complex can only produce up to 8 units per round.

~Josh

PS - Let him win, he’s only 12.  Plus, then he’ll want to play again!  :-D

[goldenbearflyer]

@OutsideLime:

I guess I’ll buy 8 infantry and 1 tank.

Unless he started with the Colonial Garrison NA, your son will not be able to place 9 units on UK1. The United Kingdom complex can only produce up to 8 units per round.

~Josh

PS - Let him win, he’s only 12. Plus, then he’ll want to play again! :-D

Let him win so he’ll want to play again, my thinking exactly! But I wonder what he’ll do after I destroy the Royal Navy on G2; he may get discouraged.

Yes, he was smart enough to take Colonial Garrison and place the IC in India and reinforce it.  For Russia he took Non-Aggression Pact, which I think is a bit weak, but with 5inf in Bury (potentially 9 if J attacks it), J has only one path west, through China, which I somehow managed NOT to take J1.  Curses!  If not for those meddling kids…

[newpaintbrush]

@goldenbearflyer:

OK, I started a new game with the idea that I would try the Land Bridge strategy and buy 3trn G1.Â

I think I immediately made a mistake, as I bought 3trn but no ground units G1.  Since Land Bridge would happen G3 if at all, I guess my oversight doesn’t really matter too much.

1.  3 trn no ground is not Caspian Sub Land Bridge.  Ground is pretty essential.
2.  You killed the US fighter in China.  That’s the really important part.  Not taking China is not that important.
3.  You can potentially follow up with G2 5 x transports.
4.  Why didn’t he see the transports on the Baltic?  You did place them?

[goldenbearflyer]

@newpaintbrush:

@goldenbearflyer:

OK, I started a new game with the idea that I would try the Land Bridge strategy and buy 3trn G1.

I think I immediately made a mistake, as I bought 3trn but no ground units G1.  Since Land Bridge would happen G3 if at all, I guess my oversight doesn’t really matter too much.

1. 3 trn no ground is not Caspian Sub Land Bridge. Ground is pretty essential.
2. You killed the US fighter in China. That’s the really important part. Not taking China is not that important.
3. You can potentially follow up with G2 5 x transports.
4. Why didn’t he see the transports on the Baltic? You did place them?

1.  Uh, heh heh, yeah, I screwed up.
2.  I hope you’re right; every IPC counts for the Axis.
3.  I’m not going that route now; UK totally fortified its island.
4.  I used a marshalling card and I made a point of explaining what I was doing.  I think his mind was elsewhere. :roll:  I made sure he knew they were there before his UK1 purchase.

Our mistakes may cancel each other out, and we have a decent game going.

OK, here is one problem I have with the Land Bridge policy paper:  it advocates attacking Egypt with 1inf 1arm 1-2ftr 1bom.  I used 1inf 1arm 2ftr 1bom, but please, it is fairly likely UK will score 2 hits, so not taking Egypt is a very real possibility.  I happened to roll poorly, so not only did I fail to take Egypt, I kiiled only 1inf.  Now his arm, ftr and even DD can escape.  I’m NOT complaining about bad rolls, I’m saying one has to EXPECT some bad results and plan accordingly.  Remind me again how that “attack” is helping Germany?!

[newpaintbrush]

@goldenbearflyer:

OK, here is one problem I have with the Land Bridge policy paper:  it advocates attacking Egypt with 1inf 1arm 1-2ftr 1bom.  I used 1inf 1arm 2ftr 1bom, but please, it is fairly likely UK will score 2 hits, so not taking Egypt is a very real possibility.  I happened to roll poorly, so not only did I fail to take Egypt, I kiiled only 1inf.  Now his arm, ftr and even DD can escape.  I’m NOT complaining about bad rolls, I’m saying one has to EXPECT some bad results and plan accordingly.  Remind me again how that “attack” is helping Germany?!

Caspian Sub Paper #11:

“2. I love the idea of uniting the fleet, but won’t I need the Med fleet in Anglo Egypt on round one?
It’s all about the bid, Baby!  Put at least one unit in Libya (and a tank in Algeria if the bid is at least 8).  At a minimum you should have 2inf 1tnk 1ftr 1bmr.  That’s a 93% win for taking the land at all costs (to close the Suez).  And heck, you may not even care if you close the Suez.  If the Indian fleet comes through the canal, you can still unite the fleets in Z07 and kill the fleet when it comes west.  Japan will then have an easier game.”

–

lol

[goldenbearflyer]

@newpaintbrush:

@goldenbearflyer:

OK, here is one problem I have with the Land Bridge policy paper:  it advocates attacking Egypt with 1inf 1arm 1-2ftr 1bom.  I used 1inf 1arm 2ftr 1bom, but please, it is fairly likely UK will score 2 hits, so not taking Egypt is a very real possibility.  I happened to roll poorly, so not only did I fail to take Egypt, I kiiled only 1inf.  Now his arm, ftr and even DD can escape.  I’m NOT complaining about bad rolls, I’m saying one has to EXPECT some bad results and plan accordingly.  Remind me again how that “attack” is helping Germany?!

Caspian Sub Paper #11:

“2. I love the idea of uniting the fleet, but won’t I need the Med fleet in Anglo Egypt on round one?
It’s all about the bid, Baby! Put at least one unit in Libya (and a tank in Algeria if the bid is at least 8). At a minimum you should have 2inf 1tnk 1ftr 1bmr. That’s a 93% win for taking the land at all costs (to close the Suez). And heck, you may not even care if you close the Suez. If the Indian fleet comes through the canal, you can still unite the fleets in Z07 and kill the fleet when it comes west. Japan will then have an easier game.”

–

lol

Aarrgghh, I do not like those assumptions about the bid, especially for “newbies” like my son and I (although I don’t consider myself a true newbie).  So, Land Bridge should not even be considered if you have no bid?  I know that’s not what was said, but without the extra troops from a bid, the attack on Egypt makes little sense.

[newpaintbrush]

@goldenbearflyer:

Aarrgghh, I do not like those assumptions about the bid, especially for “newbies” like my son and I (although I don’t consider myself a true newbie).  So, Land Bridge should not even be considered if you have no bid?  I know that’s not what was said, but without the extra troops from a bid, the attack on Egypt makes little sense.

A bid is pretty standard for MOST experienced players, whether casual or tournament.  This is because a well-coordinated Allied plan is very very difficult for the Axis to beat.  (Personally, I think it’s impossible for the Axis to win without a bid, unless the Axis have a good bit of luck somewhere - or unless they really flog the V2 plan, which is not really fun for either player).

Also, you must read the instructions!  Didn’t you hear about what happened to the evil genius that started assembling his Supreme Weapon of Doom without first checking the manual?  After seventy hours of work, he found that he had assembled Barbie’s Super Deluxe Mansion (which made his daughter very happy, but she never DID find the lid to that pot in the Barbie kitchen . . .)

If you have no bid, you almost have to run the Med fleet to Anglo-Egypt.  I think I just did a writeup on this, actually.  how convenientz0rz.

[frood]

You know, as newbies, I’d say just start playing the game. Make mistakes, and you’ll learn what’s useful, what’s vulnerable, etc. Just have fun with it and get into deeper analysis once you have the “feel” of the game.

[goldenbearflyer]

newpaintbrush:  If you have no bid, you almost have to run the Med fleet to Anglo-Egypt.  I think I just did a writeup on this, actually.  how convenientz0rz.

Right.  But I really liked the effects of the G1 attack on SZ13 and Gibraltar.  Yep, a bid in Libya would have been nice.  Yes, I am of course following your other thread; please see my latest question there.

What is “convenientz0rz”?  I seem to recall seeing that “z0rz” text in other posts of yours.  Is it part of an emoticon gone bad?

frrodster:  You know, as newbies, I’d say just start playing the game. Make mistakes, and you’ll learn what’s useful, what’s vulnerable, etc. Just have fun with it and get into deeper analysis once you have the “feel” of the game.

Yep, that’s the approach I’m taking - just having fun.

I think my son will want to try the Axis next, because he was complaining that I started with so many units on the map; then I would definitely offer him a bid plus NA, because otherwise no way would he have a chance.

At any rate, tonight I look forward to destroying the puny Royal Navy and crushing Karelia; then Japan will take Hawaii, and I’ll see how he reacts! :evil:

[newpaintbrush]

@goldenbearflyer:

newpaintbrush:  If you have no bid, you almost have to run the Med fleet to Anglo-Egypt.  I think I just did a writeup on this, actually.  how convenientz0rz.

Right.  But I really liked the effects of the G1 attack on SZ13 and Gibraltar.  Yep, a bid in Libya would have been nice.  Yes, I am of course following your other thread; please see my latest question there.

Yeah, that Gibraltar attack is pretty sweet.  But it does run into a flexibility problem; namely, it is THEORETICALLY possible to unite the German fleet on G2, but PRACTICALLY, it is pretty difficult depending on the Allied air/navy.

What is “convenientz0rz”?  I seem to recall seeing that “z0rz” text in other posts of yours.  Is it part of an emoticon gone bad?

It’s like Pig Latin for l33tspeak.  (Leetspeak is writing with numbers instead of letters, and making obscure references that are “kewl”.  Basically, you pop “z0rz” on to something, and make it l33tspeak.  L0lz0rz.

frrodster:  You know, as newbies, I’d say just start playing the game. Make mistakes, and you’ll learn what’s useful, what’s vulnerable, etc. Just have fun with it and get into deeper analysis once you have the “feel” of the game.

Yep, that’s the approach I’m taking - just having fun.

I think my son will want to try the Axis next, because he was complaining that I started with so many units on the map; then I would definitely offer him a bid plus NA, because otherwise no way would he have a chance.

At any rate, tonight I look forward to destroying the puny Royal Navy and crushing Karelia; then Japan will take Hawaii, and I’ll see how he reacts! :evil:

[goldenbearflyer]

newpaintbrush:  Yeah, that Gibraltar attack is pretty sweet.  But it does run into a flexibility problem; namely, it is THEORETICALLY possible to unite the German fleet on G2, but PRACTICALLY, it is pretty difficult depending on the Allied air/navy.

Righto, so in this game I took a different approach.  G2 I used my Baltic trannies to move 4inf 4arm over to Karel.  I used the 2subs 4ftr to kill the UK BB and trn in SZ6 (my son was surprisingly unfazed, but this is a young man who’s sorceror died in an 18th level adventure at DunDraCon and he took it in stride; losing a BB is nothing to him) losing 1 sub and then 1 sub to UK2 air attack.  My Baltic fleet is down to 1DD 4trn, but so what.  I used my Med fleet to make a second assault on Egypt, and this time I was successful.  After G3 I control most of Africa; we’ll see how long I hold that.

So my Karelia stack is up to 12inf 2art 11arm 2ftr, which sounds great, but in WRus he has amassed IIRC 24inf 2art 6arm 2ftr, so I have a lot of catching up to do.  At this point all I can do is trade territories and build up a big stack, but I certainly can’t confront Russia directly, not when he has such a big advantage in infantry.

For J2, I took China, built an IC in Kwang (I already have 5trn), consolidated forces and put a stack of inf there.  Whereas I meant to attack Hawaii, I delayed that to J3 due to a logistical mistake on my part.  My goal is to take New Zealand or Australia J4 and then go to SZ42 and see what that does to US plans.

[goldenbearflyer]

btw, just my luck, on UK2 my son did sbr, I rolled “4” and he rolled “6” and of course laughed in my face!  :-P :lol:

[goldenbearflyer]

btw, I did NOT attempt fleet unification in the game against my son.  I had no bid, so I really needed the Med fleet to support my attack on Egypt, which went well, and of course my tank is running amok in Africa.  Just to test him, I left the tank alone in FWA after a blitz move.  US is within range to take FWA and kill my tank, but I doubt he will see that move.

Meanwhile, I am using Baltic trannies to build up a big stack in Karel, making Russia nervous!

[newpaintbrush]

@goldenbearflyer:

btw, I did NOT attempt fleet unification in the game against my son.  I had no bid, so I really needed the Med fleet to support my attack on Egypt, which went well, and of course my tank is running amok in Africa.  Just to test him, I left the tank alone in FWA after a blitz move.  US is within range to take FWA and kill my tank, but I doubt he will see that move.

Meanwhile, I am using Baltic trannies to build up a big stack in Karel, making Russia nervous!

1.  US taking FWA on US2 is not really all that great, because US has to divert a valuable transport.  Of course, I’m not saying US taking FWA is bad either.  But there are often reasons to ignore FWA.

2.  A big stack in Karelia would have been critical in Classic.  In Revised, a German stack on Karelia is far less of a problem for Russia, as a major German stack at Karelia inevitably invites Russia to either 1) establish a forward position in Ukraine; if Germany advances to Archangel, the W. Russia stack moves back, the Ukraine stack moves back, and Allied fighters move to Moscow, effectively trapping the German army, or 2) Russia pulls hit and run on Karelia, which is basically Russia attacking in great force, ripping the heart out of the German army, then retreating to West Russia, so the Germans have no place to attack.

[rjclayton]

Ahhh, but what if the German stack just sits in Karelia instead of moves to Archangel.  Now how are the allies going to move troops to reinforce Russia?

[newpaintbrush]

@rjclayton:

Ahhh, but what if the German stack just sits in Karelia instead of moves to Archangel.  Now how are the allies going to move troops to reinforce Russia?

Let us say that Germany thinks it can, with Japan’s help, take Moscow.  Then the German stack will not be in Karelia long.  Then the German stack will move to West Russia or Archangel.  Then the Russians can try a hit and run from Moscow using Russian infantry and Russian artillery and Russian tanks and Russian fighters if the Germans are relatively weak at that point (because a strong position at Karelia does not equate to a strong position in Archangel/West Russia, as every turn gives Russia another turn to build up), OR if the Germans are still mighty, the Allies can fly leftover fighters from the Atlantic battle in to defend Moscow.  (Frankly, if the Allies didn’t win the Atlantic battle and have some leftover fighters by the time Germany gets such a big pile of units, the Allies are probably toast).

If Germany just sits in Karelia, the Allies can move units into Archangel anyways.  If the German stack attacks the Archangel stack, Russia can counterattack from Moscow.  IF that is, Japan is not seriously threatening Moscow.  If the Germans have a mighty stack on Karelia and the Japs have a mighty stack on Novosibirsk, though, that’s game anyways.

[goldenbearflyer]

In some ways it’s harder playing a 12-year-old newbie, because he WON’T always make the “logical” or expected move.  That’s why I wonder if my lone tank is safe in FWA; my son doesn’t care if it makes sense to destroy that.  Does he care enough to keep playing, that is the question. :wink:

Last night we did not play.  My fault entirely; we went to our local game store to have fun at “game night”, where we try out lots of different board/card games, etc.  For some reason there was a guy from Hero Games teaching some weird game called Cyberspace, IIRC.  It was fun, but it took longer than I expected, so we couldn’t even finish one game.  :-(

I challenged one of my friends to try A&AR, I would take Axis, but he thinks the game takes too long.  I tried to convince him we could save time by using TripleA, but he is not sold on it. :cry:  I’m persistent; I’ll think of a way to get him hooked.

Meanwhile, tonight I have to “persuade” my son to play…

[newpaintbrush]

Tell us more about this “persuasion”.

[rjclayton]

@newpaintbrush:

Tell us more about this “persuasion”.

LOL!

@newpaintbrush:

If the German stack attacks the Archangel stack, Russia can counterattack from Moscow. IF that is, Japan is not seriously threatening Moscow. If the Germans have a mighty stack on Karelia and the Japs have a mighty stack on Novosibirsk, though, that’s game anyways.

What if Germany just strafes the inferior Archangel stack every turn and continues reinforcing Karelia from Eastern?

[newpaintbrush]

@rjclayton:

@newpaintbrush:

If the German stack attacks the Archangel stack, Russia can counterattack from Moscow. IF that is, Japan is not seriously threatening Moscow. If the Germans have a mighty stack on Karelia and the Japs have a mighty stack on Novosibirsk, though, that’s game anyways.

What if Germany just strafes the inferior Archangel stack every turn and continues reinforcing Karelia from Eastern?

Well, if Germany strafes the Archangel stack, then:

1.  Germany’s position at Karelia does not get any stronger, while Russia continues to build at Moscow.

2.  If Germany strafed and did not take, the Allies can move more infantry into Archangel.

3.  Germany wins the IPC trade with UK and US, but UK and US should have around 50ish combined income, at least, as well as a big transport chain.  Germany has to neutralize around 10 infantry a turn once the Allied chain gets going.  (That is - US produces in Eastern Europe, those ground units march to Eastern Canada, then transport group A takes the E. Canada units to London, then transport group B takes the London units to Archangel).  To elaborate, UK should have 4 transports (I usually get 5), and US two groups of 3 transports each.  Since E. Canada is also in range of W. Europe, Germany has to watch out for 10 transports of units moving into W. Europe.  Of course, the Allies MIGHT have used some of those transports against Africa, but that in turn cuts off German IPCs from Africa.

What that proposition amounts to is Germany is contained, and Russia is free to counter Japanese aggression.  Russia ought to have enough units to at least secure Moscow and trade Kazakh/Novosibirsk every turn.  Of course, if Russia is surrounded by Japan, then the Allies have a pretty big problem.  Also, I don’t say this position was inevitable in the first place; the Allies have to secure the north Atlantic for all this good stuff to happen first.  (But I think it’s pretty hard to stop).