Build 2 Japanese ICs round one?

[DarthMaximus]

I think it is very possible to “disguise” a KJF all the way up until US 1.

Infact, I now use pretty much the same opening for the Allies (R1 and UK1) then decide on US 1 which route I want to take.

[Quijote]

Possibly, but if you don’t take the Japanese ICs in Manch and FIC with the Russians and/or British in T1, it’ll be a long time before you can seriously threaten them again.

I maintain: If both ICs can be defended throughout T1 (and I admit that’s a big if), they’re great to have against any Allied strategy.

[Quijote]

I meant to say T2 of course.

[squirecam]

@DarthMaximus:

I think it is very possible to “disguise” a KJF all the way up until US 1.

Infact, I now use pretty much the same opening for the Allies (R1 and UK1) then decide on US 1 which route I want to take.

Yes, you can disguise it.

But what AR and I was saying is that to take maximum advantage USSR 2, troops need to be placed in certain areas, which if put there, gives Germany not subtle hints on what you plan to do.

If you dont do these moves, you can still KJF, but it wont be as strong, since your USSR troops are not put in the best spot to exploit a japanese opening.

Squirecam

[squirecam]

AR,

You going to Greg’s spring gathering??

Squirecam

[DarthMaximus]

It is not necessarily about threatening them, I look at it as can Japan fill their production capability.

(assume Japan losses Kwa trn on UK1)

Option 1 - buy 2 ICs earn 36

On J2 they can get 8 units to Aisa (8 units out of a possible 14)
J2 - bought 1 trn, 2 arm, 6 inf

On J3 they get ~10 units to Asia (10 out of 14)
bought ~ 2 arm, 10 inf (need another trn or only get 10 units to Asia out of 14)

J4 buy 3rd trn and troops and you still only top out at 12 units out of 14.

Option 2 - Buy 3 trns

On J2 you get 8 units to Asia ( 8 units out of 8 )
bought 1 IC, 7 inf

On J3 get 10 units to Asia (11 out of 11 with inf from islands)
bought 2 arm, 9 inf (save 3) - (11 units out of 11)

Then buy you second IC on J4 and you can still max out at 11 for 11, then max out at 14 for 14.

I think I did the math right, so from my pov, as Japan you want to max out your current production levels before upgrading with ICs on the mainland.

You already start with an 8 level from Japan, jumping immediately to 14 isn’t beneficial since you can’t fill 14 for quite some time.
that is 42 IPC if you are only building inf, throw in 6 tanks and 4 inf instead and you top out at 10 units.
Why not get 1 IC and 4 trns and top out at 11 and you can now get 6 arm and 5 inf (if that is the rout you go) to Aisa and it only cost you 15 (IC) + 24 (3 other trns) = 39
vs.
30 (2 IC) + 8 (1 trn other) = 38 BUT only 10 units, to get 11 you need another trn, so
30 + 16 = 46.

So it is 39 vs. 38 or
39 vs. 46.

I’ll take the 39 in both cases for the flexability alone.
Plus I like to try and get one Japan IC closer to Moscow when I have secured Asia.

[DarthMaximus]

@squirecam:

@DarthMaximus:

I think it is very possible to “disguise” a KJF all the way up until US 1.

Infact, I now use pretty much the same opening for the Allies (R1 and UK1) then decide on US 1 which route I want to take.

Yes, you can disguise it.

But what AR and I was saying is that to take maximum advantage USSR 2, troops need to be placed in certain areas, which if put there, gives Germany not subtle hints on what you plan to do.

If you dont do these moves, you can still KJF, but it wont be as strong, since your USSR troops are not put in the best spot to exploit a japanese opening.

Squirecam

I disagree (about the strength of the disguised KJF that is)
In the strat I use, Russia has nothing to do with Japan anyway, so it is of little concern to me.

[squirecam]

@DarthMaximus:

@squirecam:

@DarthMaximus:

I think it is very possible to “disguise” a KJF all the way up until US 1.

Infact, I now use pretty much the same opening for the Allies (R1 and UK1) then decide on US 1 which route I want to take.

Yes, you can disguise it.

But what AR and I was saying is that to take maximum advantage USSR 2, troops need to be placed in certain areas, which if put there, gives Germany not subtle hints on what you plan to do.

If you dont do these moves, you can still KJF, but it wont be as strong, since your USSR troops are not put in the best spot to exploit a japanese opening.

Squirecam

I disagree (about the strength of the disguised KJF that is)
In the strat I use, Russia has nothing to do with Japan anyway, so it is of little concern to me.

That may be true for you.

In the way I KJF, I use all 3 countries. Therefore, USSR placement is important.

Let me ask you a couple Q if I can on your moves:

1 - UKR attack??  (I dont)
2 - Add India troops?? (I do)
3 - Bury stack?? (I do)

Squirecam

[axis_roll]

@squirecam:

AR,

You going to Greg’s spring gathering??

Squirecam

I don’t have the time to travel to a tourneyment.

It’s hard enough getting an hour or two here or there for a PBEM game, although I can swing a Friday night every now and then with my gaming group for some FTF.

[squirecam]

@axis_roll:

@squirecam:

AR,

You going to Greg’s spring gathering??

Squirecam

I don’t have the time to travel to a tourneyment.

It’s hard enough getting an hour or two here or there for a PBEM game, although I can swing a Friday night every now and then with my gaming group for some FTF.

Spring Gathering is NOT a tournament.

Just 30 people playing FTF games. Its just for fun. No pressure, just a chance to play with some great people and try out different stuff. Plus some nice raffle prizes Greg has.

I know TomJag is heading down for it. If you can, you should try to make it. It should be a lot of fun.

Squirecam

[DarthMaximus]

Yeah, mine might be better described as a Cripple Japan First.

R1

I have done Wrus or Wrus and Ukr (sometimes with 3 inf, 1 rt, 2 arm, 2 ftr).
At the moment I’m leaning toward just Wrus.
No Bury Stack, all Eastern troops reatreat (they’ll be needed against Ger) OR a Yak stack, which then moves to Novo once Japan has unloaded enough in Bury.

UK 1
Retreat Trj and Ind to a Per stack with fleet unification in Sz 30 (no inf on trns yet)

US 1 should I go through with it
Sin retreat to Kaz
Join UK fleet in Sz 8 with troops
Buy 2 ac, 1 ftr to have 2 ac 4 ftrs, 1 bb, 1 dd, 1 trn in Sz 55.

Round 2

Russia holds her own agains Ger
UK/US hit Alg
UK fleet in sz 30 (if alive) can pick up Aus troops, or head to Aus to meet with US, or take Per troops to Afr (all pending J fleet)
US can build up fleet or head to Sol for meeting with UK

Round 3

UK/US to Afr again (or switch to Nor) pending Ger purchases.
If they bought navy you probably have to go to Nor to block any assualt on UK.
Etc…

Note:
If Ger goes navy heavy (possible assualt on UK) on G1 or something I simply forget about the KJF idea and plan accordingly.

[axis_roll]

@DarthMaximus:

@squirecam:

@DarthMaximus:

I think it is very possible to “disguise” a KJF all the way up until US 1.

Infact, I now use pretty much the same opening for the Allies (R1 and UK1) then decide on US 1 which route I want to take.

Yes, you can disguise it.

But what AR and I was saying is that to take maximum advantage USSR 2, troops need to be placed in certain areas, which if put there, gives Germany not subtle hints on what you plan to do.

If you dont do these moves, you can still KJF, but it wont be as strong, since your USSR troops are not put in the best spot to exploit a japanese opening.

Squirecam

I disagree (about the strength of the disguised KJF that is)
In the strat I use, Russia has nothing to do with Japan anyway, so it is of little concern to me.

UK and USA would have to get after Japan pretty damn fast and hard ….

I think it’s best to keep Japan from ever getting going.   Japan with only mid-upper $30s income gives the US economic/production advantage time to get after Japans navy.  USSR is right there to thwart Japans opening round expansion… UK forces are limited while US takes a bit to get there.

These leads to Russia doing the early dirty work, UK keeping Japan honest and poor by holding India and possibly trading FIC… USA comes in to either force Japanese Naval purchases or swoop in on the big islands (or both).

I am NOT saying that KJF MUST use Russians, in fact, I imagine it’s possible to have Russia take on Germany full force (with a strong slow w/d from out east) wiht UK help as much as possible.

KJF can have several flavors, often times they are successful simply because the Japanese player has never seen said flavor before and then fails to properly react.  A seasoned Revised Japanese player, IMHO, can withstand the UK/USA KJF pressure.

[axis_roll]

@squirecam:

Spring Gathering is NOT a tournament.

Just 30 people playing FTF games. Its just for fun. No pressure, just a chance to play with some great people and try out different stuff. Plus some nice raffle prizes Greg has.

I know TomJag is heading down for it. If you can, you should try to make it. It should be a lot of fun.

Squirecam

Sorry I misunderstood about Spring Gathering.

There’s a 14 page thread at AH about the Spring gathering I don’t have time to look through… is there an easier place to get the details?
Dates, location, rules (I don’t like time/round constrainted games)…?

[DarthMaximus]

Good points.

I guess, it comes down to this, I really like not making the commitment until US 1.  And put a very high value on that.

Lets see the rolls on G1 and J1, and how they are going to play.   :-)

[squirecam]

@axis_roll:

@squirecam:

Spring Gathering is NOT a tournament.

Just 30 people playing FTF games. Its just for fun. No pressure, just a chance to play with some great people and try out different stuff. Plus some nice raffle prizes Greg has.

I know TomJag is heading down for it. If you can, you should try to make it. It should be a lot of fun.

Squirecam

Sorry I misunderstood about Spring Gathering.

There’s a 14 page thread at AH about the Spring gathering I don’t have time to look through… is there an easier place to get the details?
Dates, location, rules (I don’t like time/round constrainted games)…?

http://www.geocities.com/headlesshorseman2/AAspringgathering.html

We’re Back!  The 5th Annual 2007 Axis & Allies “Spring Gathering V” is back and bigger than ever.  For those who are unfamiliar with what the Spring Gathering is; it is a day and a half of friends and AA advocates getting together from across the country to play all variants of Axis & Allies, AA Mini’s and games alike.  This is not a tournament.  It is held in the historic Cincinnati Museum Center (CMC) in downtown Cincinnati, Ohio.  As the title suggests, this is our fifth year running and we hope to continue well into the future with this growing event.  So, please consider joining us for this fun and exciting weekend of gaming!

Friday Night Event Information: This year, the Spring Gathering V will kick off, just as years past, on Friday, March 30th; at the ever popular ACME Games & Comics for a Friday Night Gaming Session:  This round of gaming will begin at 7:00pm and run until they kick us out.  ACME Games & Comics is located at: 7121 Salem Rd. Cincinnati, Ohio (513)-231-3866(FUNN)  This portion of the event is free and all ages of gamers are welcome!

Spring Gathering V Information: The Spring Gathering will take place at the CMC in the Collet Gallery in the Rotunda (Main Entrance Level,
in Front of the Omni-Max Theater) Hours of the event will be 8am-10pm. There will be signs directing you to the location once inside…The cost to attend this event is $5.00/person.  Children under the age of 12 are FREE.  Pre-registration is NOT required but, for our purposes is encouraged.  Spring Gathering V Event Registration Form This will help us get a better handle on how many to expect and what kind of events need to be scheduled.  The other benifit for pre-registering is that if you do so by Friday March, 23rd, you will be sent a FREE Parking Pass for the CMC.  Parking without a pass is $5 per car. Â

Event Door Prizes:  This is not your typical CON when it comes to prizes.  What, prizes you say!  Yes.  We provide everyone the chance, with the purchase of at least one entry ticket, to win door prizes throughout the day.  Drawings are every hour and for the most part, the prizes are Axis & Allies games(Bulge, D-Day, Revised, Europe, Pacific), signed copies of a game by Larry Harris himself, mini’s, diecasts, t-shirts and much, much more…

[axis_roll]

Only if I can bring and set up the big board:

http://www.geocities.com/headlesshorseman2/AAspringgathering.html

believe it or not, it’s mobile and fits in the back of the Durango!

Good gaming!

[squirecam]

@axis_roll:

Only if I can bring and set up the big board:

http://www.geocities.com/headlesshorseman2/AAspringgathering.html

believe it or not, it’s mobile and fits in the back of the Durango!

Good gaming!

I hope you can make it.

I have a 3 by 5 I’ll be bringing. It rolls up so its easy to take with me.

Squirecam

[squirecam]

Darth, and all you fellow Chicago-ites

You should make the short trip to the Spring Gathering.

Friday March 30 & Saturday March 31.

We can see your KJF in person.  :-)

Squirecam

[Wazzup]

You can also bomb those ICs.
Unless you spend $$ buying an extra aa.
One less attacking unit has to be moved from Japan (AA for other IC).

Production capacity as mentioned by Darth.  Well stated.  Maximize production first.

Finally, Transports get those inf off the Islands into Asia.

To me, even in KJF, aside from the inf on the non producing Islands, the inf on the Big Islands can be shucked to Asia.

Does it make the Island more defenseless?  Yes.  However, with bombardment and ftrs coming strong, defending inf will rarely defend the Island from occupation.  More times than not, w/o loss.  Why not have those inf on your asian front.

Not buying inf also means you can buy other stuff to keep the US in the eastern pacific.

[Guest]

Darth has hit on the key theme for Japan in the early and mid game… utilization of capacity.

If they have a tone of capacity, but lack the income to fully implement it, then why did you invest in the IC’s to begin with?

Max out capacity, then UPGRADE that capacity yeild (replacing INF with INF/ART combos, then later INF/ARM) so that you get the maximum bang out of every potential unit of production.  Then, once you have maxed out production, THINK about adding more capacity.  And once you are CERTAIN you can fill that, AND defend your existing capacity, etc. it might be a good idea to add more capacity.

Purely a business situation here… excess capcity is a waste of resources.