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Wish me luck in my interview
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Nice to meet another lawyer on here. What firm are you with? One of the big ones like Blakes or McCarthy Tetrault that I might have heard of? What’s your practice?
The firm is Hill Abra Dewar - small, with 9 lawyers, but a solid reputation as an exclusively litigation boutique. They hived off of Aikins (biggest firm in town) in 1988 or so and take a lot of the big clients that are conflicted out of the big firms.
Yeah, I’m not sure they’ll find anyone more suited that is actually looking for a job. I think they want people who were in advocacy competitions etc. in law school but I know those people and they are all in cushy jobs with the big firms or the federal dept. of justice.
In the meantime I have time to pursue other options and if I get another offer that just gives me some more leverage (or a better option).
To be honest I’d prefer to stay in a memo-writing capacity - I like research and analysis and writing - in court you have all these unpredictable human dynamics etc. Maybe the same reason I like PBEM a bit more than FTF gaming now - time to think and make the best possible move. So now that they’ve sort of indicated to me that they see me as a fall-back option I’m tempted to leave them high and dry if I get another offer, just to stick it to them.
I guess extending the competition is legitimate for them to do but it’s a little embarrassing for my friends, who know I’ve applied there, to know that they were not sufficiently impressed with me to take me even if I was their only applicant. So that burns a bit.
They’re a great firm and it would be good to go there though.
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They’re a corporation - of course they want the biggest bang for their buck. Who cares if your emotions are hurt? You’re merely part of the Labour Aristocracy, fattened through the explotation of third-world countries but still part of the proletariat because you must sell your labour to survive.
/socialist rant :lol:
You should look around! The job with the provincial government sounds fun… even better would be something with an advocacy group such as Amnesty International. …
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They’re a corporation - of course they want the biggest bang for their buck. Who cares if your emotions are hurt? You’re merely part of the Labour Aristocracy, fattened through the explotation of third-world countries but still part of the proletariat because you must sell your labour to survive.
/socialist rant :lol:
Actually, they’re a partnership, not a corporation - the partners are liable for their own fuckups, and not beholden to maximize profits for their shareholders - they themselves are the “shareholders”. But yes, still in it for the money.
I guess I’m proletariat - but at I do also own my own means of production.
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@froodster:
Nice to meet another lawyer on here. What firm are you with? One of the big ones like Blakes or McCarthy Tetrault that I might have heard of? What’s your practice?
The firm is Hill Abra Dewar - small, with 9 lawyers, but a solid reputation as an exclusively litigation boutique. They hived off of Aikins (biggest firm in town) in 1988 or so and take a lot of the big clients that are conflicted out of the big firms.
Yeah, I’m not sure they’ll find anyone more suited that is actually looking for a job. I think they want people who were in advocacy competitions etc. in law school but I know those people and they are all in cushy jobs with the big firms or the federal dept. of justice.
In the meantime I have time to pursue other options and if I get another offer that just gives me some more leverage (or a better option).
To be honest I’d prefer to stay in a memo-writing capacity - I like research and analysis and writing - in court you have all these unpredictable human dynamics etc. Maybe the same reason I like PBEM a bit more than FTF gaming now - time to think and make the best possible move. So now that they’ve sort of indicated to me that they see me as a fall-back option I’m tempted to leave them high and dry if I get another offer, just to stick it to them.
I guess extending the competition is legitimate for them to do but it’s a little embarrassing for my friends, who know I’ve applied there, to know that they were not sufficiently impressed with me to take me even if I was their only applicant. So that burns a bit.
They’re a great firm and it would be good to go there though.
Frood,
I know the firm and you’re right, they do have a good reputation.
As for my firm, I’d rather not say on the board, but if you’re really interested, send me a PM and I’ll give you the details.
As for memo-writing, it’s OK to do while you’re a junior lawyer but you’re not going to make any real money as a researcher. For that, you have to be the top dog and the top dogs are all standing up in court, making an argument or cross-examining a witness. It will take a few years but you’ll get there and you’ll get more comfortable as you go along. Frankly, there’s nothing I enjoy more than getting up in court and presenting an argument, especially when the Judge doesn’t buy it at first but you are able to persuade him. It’s like seducing a beautiful woman – only the beautiful woman is usually a man in his 60’s.
SS
SS
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Hmmm… maybe I’ve said too much here. I hope I can rely on people’s discretion.
I wouldn’t really take another job just to “stick it to them” - just feeling a little miffed. I’ll take whichever job is best, and this is one of the better fits I can see out there right now.
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If you’ve said too much, you can always delete the incriminating earlier post…
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But not if someone quoted it… :oops:
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's okay though, I’m not really worried.
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Nice to hear you had a good interview.
Have you considered interviewing some more while you wait the month for the results?
The company I am with now was the 2nd offer in 8 interviews. Originally they did not give me an offer. They specifically said “I was qualified, but HR was looking for a ‘truly ideal candidate.’ Please let them know if my situation (and/or availablity) changes.” 3 wks later, an offer from elsewhere got this co to fax over a higher offer within 4 hrs.
Locally a few friends of mine, got hired at ALLSTATE.
One is a lawyer, but I do not know if they are looking for more.
I got an offer from the land of Lincoln in 1999 to replace a staffer who was hired away by ALLSTATE. -
Yeah, I’ll be spreading my resume all over town in the next week or two. They’ve given me basically the same message - “We like you, but you’re not quite perfect. However, let us know if you need a decision (ie. have another offer)”
So we’ll see.
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Was listening to the radio last night and heard a statistic about job interviews - particularly asking for the job:
Apparently candidates that ended the interview just saying “Thank you” or something else other than asking for the job, were hired 15% of the time.
Candidates who ended the interview saying “I really would like this job and I hope your company chooses me to fill this position” or something similar got hired 90% of the time.Sorry, don’t have any supporting evidence, except that I heard through the media so it must be true! But maybe they have a point. Did you make a point of telling this company how much you wanted the job?
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Was listening to the radio last night and heard a statistic about job interviews - particularly asking for the job:
Apparently candidates that ended the interview just saying “Thank you” or something else other than asking for the job, were hired 15% of the time.
Candidates who ended the interview saying “I really would like this job and I hope your company chooses me to fill this position” or something similar got hired 90% of the time.Sorry, don’t have any supporting evidence, except that I heard through the media so it must be true! But maybe they have a point. Did you make a point of telling this company how much you wanted the job?
This stat makes a lot of sense to me. An interview is basically a sales call, and you always ask for the sale as a “close”.
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So Froodster, what is the latest? Any more interviews? An offer maybe?
BTW, I’ve been keeping quiet about it, but I, too, am a lawyer. :-) I practice in Florida, so it’s a little different (we call it “clerking”, not “articling”). I agree with SS, almost everyone fears going into court before they’ve actually done it. Before long, though, you begin realizing you are often the smartest person in the room and usually the most knowledgeable about what you are talking about (if you prepare properly, of course). Learning to “think on your feet” is daunting, but think of it like learning to ride a bike – you learn to do it, because you get sick and tired of falling and busting your @ss! Before you know it, you’re having fun. Knowing how to put a jerk in his place is a very satisfying feeling. :-D
I still remember my first deposition. I was sitting in a chiropractor’s office (of all places) taking his deposition and was shaking like a leaf! I get a laugh thinking about it now. Fear not! You too can learn to advocate. Because, unless you are a law-review caliber writer, chances are you will have to make your career in the trenches with the rest of us and not in the ivory tower! :wink:
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Well the latest is that I have applied for a few other jobs that will be having interviews over the next few weeks/month - we’ll see if anything comes up. I am discovering that the jobs that get me most excited are the ones that include the words “policy analyst”.
One very interesting opportunity too is with the Constitutional Law Branch, and another one with Finance Canada in the Tax Legislation branch. They might both be long shots, but we’ll see. I’ll post news when there is any, but it’s kind of an “in-between” time.
But if I can’t get into the ivory tower I guess maybe I will just have to slog it out. One problem is that I am not very driven by money, so I am not really attracted to the prospect of long hours and maximum billings - I just want a satisfying job that allows me to also have a satisfying life outside of work.
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Hey dudes - I GOT A JOB! Yay!
It’s with a smaller firm that seems to have a really good office culture/ work/life balance. They close the office every Friday afternoon in the summer and from Dec. 24 to Jan. 2. That is paid time off plus three weeks vacation. Sweet. Also, a health/dental plan, plus, after about 2 years, I get to keep 50% of my billings up to $180,000, and 75% of everything above $180,000. That’s among the best in the city here.
Their not-so-splashy website is http://www.lawyers.com/gangegoodmanfrench/ - I’ll see if I can fix that up.
So now I can stop stressing about the job hunt and get down to some serious gaming! Yah!
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Damn…
Soon be time for you to start sending financial support to ME! :lol:
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congrats, frood!!!
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Dan, if I can use an Americanism here, “You da man!” Congrats! :-D
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Are lawyers ever concerned with what’s right & wrong? Or only winning their case? If I “slip & fall” at Walmart,do I deserve a million bucks? If you can’t tell, I hold lawyers right up there with house burglars!
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There are definitely lawyers out there who give the profession a bad name. And often there are sensational headlines about big damage awards in the millions of dollars for silly things. Some of these are urban myths. I’ve also heard that most of these “sensational” awards are reduced by 90% on appeal a lot of the time.
Lawyers are ethically and professionally obligated to advocate for their clients within the confines of the law. That law ultimately is set by judges and legislators. If I were your lawyer and I settled for $10,000 and the case law said you could have had $100,000 for your loss, you wouldn’t be very happy with me, would you? The government is free to set a statutory limit on personal damage awards but for whatever reasons it has not done so.
Personally, I have a few theories of my own about why lawyers get a bad rep. First of all, it’s an adversarial system so the job is not to be nice to the other side. So if you are involved in a lawsuit, right off the bat you are going to perceive the lawyers on the other side as jackals. Second of all, on average, 50% of clients will lose their case, by necessity. So at least 50% of the time, not only will you have a bad impression of the lawyers on the other side, you will also have a bad impression of your own lawyer.
One thing you learn early on as a lawyer that clients are always convinced that justice is on their side, and that their case is a slam-dunk. Lawyers unfortunately have to weigh the case more objectively, and that’s another reason people don’t like lawyers - they tend to be the bearers of bad news, as in “sorry, you might lose”
Finally, think about the times that you have to see a lawyer, especially a trial lawyer. You are either suing someone or being sued, you are getting divorced, being charged with a crime, fighting over child custody. Basically, it’s all unpleasant stuff. Finally, it doesn’t help that lawyers have high hourly rates, and it probably pisses people off that the lawyer is profiting from their misery.
But that’s the free market - lawyers can only charge what the market will bear.
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