• So… HOW DID IT GO???

  • '19 Moderator

    Yeah, don’t leave us hangin’


  • :?

    :-D?

    :cry:?

  • 2007 AAR League

    :-)

    Sorry y’all. I personally feel like the interview went really well. Felt a pretty good rapport with the interviewers and they seemed to like my marks and my resume. Also, I am not aware of any serious competition for the job - most of my fellow graduates who had good marks have jobs that are likely to continue, whereas I knew going into my articles that there was no chance of employment after the articling year because it is such a small office.

    They said they would decide by the end of the month and I haven’t heard anything yet. I’ll be sure to let you know when I do.


  • I hope you get it!

  • 2007 AAR League

    So I heard via my boss (who gave me a good reference) that they really liked my application but were concerned about my lack of actual advocacy experience (court time, basically). So at least if I don’t get it I’ll know why.

    In the meantime they have re-advertised the job (with a note attached saying “Hiring decisions are being made right now”) and told me that they are still very interested in my application and that I should let them know if I need a decision from them (ie. have another offer). I think I may have been their only application so they just want to see if anyone else might be out there. So if no one better turns up they might still hire me. Leaves a bad taste but it’s true that I don’t have some of the experience they want.

    Oh well. In the meantime I will be applying elsewhere and maybe I’ll have another offer before they come back to me, and then I can stick it to them…

    Actually another job just opened up that would be right up my alley - with the constitutional law branch of the provincial government. Only problem is they want 5 years experience, but they may not get such a person. Can’t hurt to try anyway.


  • Well, Frood - I’ve been a lawyer for 18 years and I’ve interviewed a lot of articling students and young lawyers over the years.  Not too many of them have any advocacy experience.  Most of artilcing is spent writing briefs, doing research and watching senior lawyers do the “advocating”, so I’m not sure what this firm was expecting to find.

    What firm is it by the way?  I practice in Sask. and Alberta, so I’ll probably know the firm in Winnipeg.

    SS

  • 2007 AAR League

    Nice to meet another lawyer on here. What firm are you with? One of the big ones like Blakes or McCarthy Tetrault that I might have heard of? What’s your practice?

    The firm is Hill Abra Dewar - small, with 9 lawyers, but a solid reputation as an exclusively litigation boutique. They hived off of Aikins (biggest firm in town) in 1988 or so and take a lot of the big clients that are conflicted out of the big firms.

    Yeah, I’m not sure they’ll find anyone more suited that is actually looking for a job. I think they want people who were in advocacy competitions etc. in law school but I know those people and they are all in cushy jobs with the big firms or the federal dept. of justice.

    In the meantime I have time to pursue other options and if I get another offer that just gives me some more leverage (or a better option).

    To be honest I’d prefer to stay in a memo-writing capacity - I like research and analysis and writing - in court you have all these unpredictable human dynamics etc. Maybe the same reason I like PBEM a bit more than FTF gaming now - time to think and make the best possible move. So now that they’ve sort of indicated to me that they see me as a fall-back option I’m tempted to leave them high and dry if I get another offer, just to stick it to them.

    I guess extending the competition is legitimate for them to do but it’s a little embarrassing for my friends, who know I’ve applied there, to know that they were not sufficiently impressed with me to take me even if I was their only applicant. So that burns a bit.

    They’re a great firm and it would be good to go there though.

  • 2007 AAR League

    They’re a corporation - of course they want the biggest bang for their buck. Who cares if your emotions are hurt? You’re merely part of the Labour Aristocracy, fattened through the explotation of third-world countries but still part of the proletariat because you must sell your labour to survive.

    /socialist rant  :lol:

    You should look around! The job with the provincial government sounds fun… even better would be something with an advocacy group such as Amnesty International. …

  • 2007 AAR League

    @Adonai:

    They’re a corporation - of course they want the biggest bang for their buck. Who cares if your emotions are hurt? You’re merely part of the Labour Aristocracy, fattened through the explotation of third-world countries but still part of the proletariat because you must sell your labour to survive.

    /socialist rant  :lol:

    Actually, they’re a partnership, not a corporation - the partners are liable for their own fuckups, and not beholden to maximize profits for their shareholders - they themselves are the “shareholders”. But yes, still in it for the money.

    I guess I’m proletariat - but at I do also own my own means of production.


  • @froodster:

    Nice to meet another lawyer on here. What firm are you with? One of the big ones like Blakes or McCarthy Tetrault that I might have heard of? What’s your practice?

    The firm is Hill Abra Dewar - small, with 9 lawyers, but a solid reputation as an exclusively litigation boutique. They hived off of Aikins (biggest firm in town) in 1988 or so and take a lot of the big clients that are conflicted out of the big firms.

    Yeah, I’m not sure they’ll find anyone more suited that is actually looking for a job. I think they want people who were in advocacy competitions etc. in law school but I know those people and they are all in cushy jobs with the big firms or the federal dept. of justice.

    In the meantime I have time to pursue other options and if I get another offer that just gives me some more leverage (or a better option).

    To be honest I’d prefer to stay in a memo-writing capacity - I like research and analysis and writing - in court you have all these unpredictable human dynamics etc. Maybe the same reason I like PBEM a bit more than FTF gaming now - time to think and make the best possible move. So now that they’ve sort of indicated to me that they see me as a fall-back option I’m tempted to leave them high and dry if I get another offer, just to stick it to them.

    I guess extending the competition is legitimate for them to do but it’s a little embarrassing for my friends, who know I’ve applied there, to know that they were not sufficiently impressed with me to take me even if I was their only applicant. So that burns a bit.

    They’re a great firm and it would be good to go there though.

    Frood,

    I know the firm and you’re right, they do have a good reputation.

    As for my firm, I’d rather not say on the board, but if you’re really interested, send me a PM and I’ll give you the details.

    As for memo-writing, it’s OK to do while you’re a junior lawyer but you’re not going to make any real money as a researcher.  For that, you have to be the top dog and the top dogs are all standing up in court, making an argument or cross-examining a witness.  It will take a few years but you’ll get there and you’ll get more comfortable as you go along.  Frankly, there’s nothing I enjoy more than getting up in court and presenting an argument, especially when the Judge doesn’t buy it at first but you are able to persuade him.  It’s like seducing a beautiful woman – only the beautiful woman is usually a man in his 60’s.

    SS

    SS

  • 2007 AAR League

    Hmmm… maybe I’ve said too much here. I hope I can rely on people’s discretion.

    I wouldn’t really take another job just to “stick it to them” - just feeling a little miffed. I’ll take whichever job is best, and this is one of the better fits I can see out there right now.

  • 2007 AAR League

    If you’ve said too much, you can always delete the incriminating earlier post…

  • 2007 AAR League

    But not if someone quoted it…  :oops:

  • 2007 AAR League

    's okay though, I’m not really worried.


  • Nice to hear you had a good interview.

    Have you considered interviewing some more while you wait the month for the results?

    The company I am with now was the 2nd offer in 8 interviews.  Originally they did not give me an offer.  They specifically said “I was qualified, but HR was looking for a ‘truly ideal candidate.’  Please let them know if my situation (and/or availablity) changes.”  3 wks later, an offer from elsewhere got this co to fax over a higher offer within 4 hrs.

    Locally a few friends of mine, got hired at ALLSTATE. 
    One is a lawyer, but I do not know if they are looking for more.
    I got an offer from the land of Lincoln in 1999  to replace a staffer who was hired away by ALLSTATE.

  • 2007 AAR League

    Yeah, I’ll be spreading my resume all over town in the next week or two. They’ve given me basically the same message - “We like you, but you’re not quite perfect. However, let us know if you need a decision (ie. have another offer)”

    So we’ll see.

  • 2007 AAR League

    Was listening to the radio last night and heard a statistic about job interviews - particularly asking for the job:

    Apparently candidates that ended the interview just saying “Thank you” or something else other than asking for the job, were hired 15% of the time.
    Candidates who ended the interview saying “I really would like this job and I hope your company chooses me to fill this position” or something similar got hired 90% of the time.

    Sorry, don’t have any supporting evidence, except that I heard through the media so it must be true!  But maybe they have a point.  Did you make a point of telling this company how much you wanted the job?


  • @rjclayton:

    Was listening to the radio last night and heard a statistic about job interviews - particularly asking for the job:

    Apparently candidates that ended the interview just saying “Thank you” or something else other than asking for the job, were hired 15% of the time.
    Candidates who ended the interview saying “I really would like this job and I hope your company chooses me to fill this position” or something similar got hired 90% of the time.

    Sorry, don’t have any supporting evidence, except that I heard through the media so it must be true!  But maybe they have a point.  Did you make a point of telling this company how much you wanted the job?

    This stat makes a lot of sense to me.  An interview is basically a sales call, and you always ask for the sale as a “close”.


  • So Froodster, what is the latest?  Any more interviews?  An offer maybe?

    BTW, I’ve been keeping quiet about it, but I, too, am a lawyer.  :-)  I practice in Florida, so it’s a little different (we call it “clerking”, not “articling”).  I agree with SS, almost everyone fears going into court before they’ve actually done it.  Before long, though, you begin realizing you are often the smartest person in the room and usually the most knowledgeable about what you are talking about (if you prepare properly, of course).  Learning to “think on your feet” is daunting, but think of it like learning to ride a bike – you learn to do it, because you get sick and tired of falling and busting your @ss!  Before you know it, you’re having fun.  Knowing how to put a jerk in his place is a very satisfying feeling.  :-D

    I still remember my first deposition.  I was sitting in a chiropractor’s office (of all places) taking his deposition and was shaking like a leaf!  I get a laugh thinking about it now.  Fear not!  You too can learn to advocate.  Because, unless you are a law-review caliber writer, chances are you will have to make your career in the trenches with the rest of us and not in the ivory tower!  :wink:

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