Axis & Allies & Comintern (Three Turn Playing System for G40)

[the_jetset]

Axis & Allies & Comintern

OBJECTIVE

BLOCKS OF POWER

**Axis:  **

**Allies:  **

**Comintern:  **

_per CWO Marc’s observation, China wasn’t Comintern at this point.  But this is modeled in the rules listed below.  _

ORDER OF PLAY:

• 1. Axis (Germany, Italy and Japan play together)
• 2. Comintern  (Russia and China play together)
• 3. Allies  (USA, UK, ANZAC play together)

SPECIAL COUNTRY RULES

Forces Attacking Together

• Axis forces can attack together during their turn.  Combined arms modifiers only apply for forces of the same nation.  (Idea from user Carolina)

• Allied forces can attack together during their turn.  Combined arms modifiers only apply for forces of the same nation.  (Idea from user Carolina)

• Comintern forces cannot attack together during their turn. ie … Soviet and China cannot attack together

Allied/Soviet Movement Restrictions

• Allied and Soviet forces cannot occupy the same land territory.  (they can occupy the same sea zone and defend together in the sea zone)

• Allied and Soviet forces cannot move into a territory controlled by the other power. (For example, Allied forces could not enter a territory with a Soviet roundel on it, and vice-versa)

• Allied and Soviet forces CAN move into a previously controlled Allied/Soviet territory that has been lost to the Axis.  This “liberates” the territory and returns the IPC value to the original controller.

• Allied and Soviet forces can remain in a “liberated” territory.  If they leave the territory they cannot return.  While this territory is occupied, forces of the other Power Block cannot enter it.  (Example:  Japan takes the “Soviet Far East” territory.  USA Liberates this territory, returns the IPC value back to the Soviets and places USA troops and USA Strategic Bombers there.  Soviet forces cannot enter the “Soviet Far East” territory while USA forces are present)

Allied/China Restrictions

• Allied forces can enter China.

• China and Allied forces defend together, but cannot attack together as they go in different turns.

Soviet/China Restrictions

(per CWO Marc’s observations)

• Soviet forces cannot enter Chinese controlled territories in China.

• Chinese forces cannot enter Soviet controlled territories.

France - VO Sequence for After the Fall of Paris to the Axis

(Credits to:  CWO Marc’s observations in his Map Analysis post.  odigity’s post asking about capturing a capital-less ally.  Regularkid in his G40 Balance Mod regarding Vichy France)

• French Units in UK are now “Free French” and become fully controlled by the UK Europe player.  They should be treated exactly as UK Units with no French/UK country restrictions.

• French cruiser in Sea Zone 110 is now “Free French” and becomes fully controlled by the UK Europe player.  It should be treated exactly as a UK Unit with no French/UK country restrictions.

• Remaining land units are now “Vichy France” and are treated as “Axis Friendly Neutrals” with the following exceptions:

• Remaining Sea units are treated as “Axis Friendly Neutrals” with the following exceptions

• Any French territory can be occupied by Axis, Allied or Comintern forces under the same rules as an “Axis Friendly Neutral”.

If Paris is liberated by Allies:

• France Liberation VO is activated as normal.

• Non-occupied / unclaimed land territories (territories with a France Roundel) and units in these territories return to control of Liberated France.

• Occupied / Claimed units remain “Vichy” and Axis-Friendly.  (Territory would already be under Axis control in this situation and have either a German, Japanese or Italian Roundel)

• All Sea-Units return to control of Liberated France.

• Any remaining Free French units absorbed by the UK after the fall of Paris should be returned to Liberated French control.

If Paris is occupied by Russia:

• France is not liberated, but instead absorbed into Russian territories and becomes part of the Comintern.

• France Liberation VO is not activated.

• Non-occupied / unclaimed land territories and units remain Vichy / Axis-Friendly Neutrals

• Sea-Units remain Vichy / Axis-Friendly Neutrals

• Free French units remain under UK Europe control.

SPECIAL UNIT RULES

Combined Arms Modifiers

Idea from user Carolina

• Combined arms modifiers only apply for forces of the same nation.

Aircraft Carriers

Idea from user Carolina

• Aircraft carriers can only launch attacks with airplanes of the same nation.

• Aircraft carriers can launch and receive friendly aircraft during the Non-Combat move.

Transports

• Transports can only launch amphibious attacks in the Combat Move with units from the same nation.

• Transports can load, move and unload friendly units in the Non-Combat move.

CASUALTIES AND OCCUPATION

• Axis and Allied forces that attack together randomly select casualties for the same unit type. (for instance, if there are 3 German and 2 Italian infantry and they decide that an infantry will be the 1st casualty, the Germans roll 3 dice and the Italians roll 2 dice.  Whoever has the higher sum takes the casualty.)  Any other “random” method may be used as well

• Country with the largest army remaining at the end of the battle takes control of the occupied territory.

/ / ANALYSIS / /

**This eliminates some of the “gamey” moves.  **

• No more “can openers”.

• I always thought it was weird that Axis and Allied forces cannot coordinate their attacks … D-day?  North Africa?  Okinawa? (Major Commonwealth task force involved in that)  All examples of both Axis and Allied forces attacking together.

• A friend can no longer land aircraft in a territory you captured during your turn during the same round.

• Allied forces can no longer reinforce Russian territories.

On a strategic level this method of game play does the following:

• Japan has less incentive to invade Siberia.  Because not only will it activate Mongolian forces, Allied forces can now “liberate” Japanese controlled Soviet Union territories for launching air-strikes against Korea or even Japan itself.

• Italy no longer has to worry about losing their battleship in a risky “Taranto” raid on UK’s Turn 1.

• Enhances game balance.  Axis gain a slight advantage in the Eastern Front because Soviet controlled territories can no longer be reinforced by Allied Forces.

• Allied forces gain a larger advantage by being able to coordinate their attacks because there are more components that comprise the Allied forces.

• Greatly reduces the likelihood of an Allied invasion of Germany through Norway –> Leningrad --> Baltic States.  Allies have to push into Germany via the Southern and Western Fronts.   Soviet Union has to push into Berlin via the Eastern Front.  … And each step forward by either side is basically a “planted flag” that lead to the inevitable Cold War once the Axis where defeated.

[Young Grasshopper]

Gonna take a closer look at this in the morning, interesting ideas.

[the_jetset]

Thanks Young Grasshopper.  Would be really interested in your ideas on this.  This kind of evolved from one of your old videos where you discussed modified turn sequences.  (Actually I wrote on one of your YouTube comments a couple of weeks ago asking you to repost this under one of your House Rules videos)

My group and I turned it into this ….  Makes for great Axis collaboration and Allied collaboration … While keeping those Ruskies at arms length.  Patton would have approved.  :-D

[CWO Marc]

@the_jetset:

This is the way we play A&A G40.  I think it both speeds up game play and enhances strategy. Â

Comintern:  (Soviet Union and China) Â

A&A G40 is set during WWII, not the Cold War.  In WWII, most of China was a pro-Western republic, not a pro-Soviet communist state.

[the_jetset]

That’s true.  But communist China and Russia had a non-agression pact in WW2.  It might be better then to also include a rule that Soviet forces can’t enter non-occupied Chinese territories, and vice-versa.  We just play Russia and China together to reduce the turns to three per round.  Usually Russia is too worried looking West to move troops into China anyway.

[CWO Marc]

@the_jetset:

But communist China and Russia had a non-agression pact in WW2.  Â

The point I was trying to make is that “Communist China” didn’t exist in WWII.  The only part of China that was “Communist” at the time was the small corner – about 5 or 10% of the country – where Mao and his men ended up after the Long March.  The rest of China was either Japanese-occupied or in the hands of Chiang’s Republican forces.

[the_jetset]

I think this is simulated correctly by stating that Allied forces can enter China and defend together, but not attack together.  (Pro-Nationalist/Chiang Kai-shek)  Again, the main reason for having China go in the Russian turn is to separate China from the Allies (preventing them from coordinating attacks together) but also to give a nod to the ideological conflict that existed in China.

My friends and I in Mexico have played this way for several months now and we find that it GREATLY speeds up gameplay while enhancing strategy.  It also, seems to reduce some of the advantages that friendly units have.  Including:

• “Can-Opener” moves
• Having a friend land airplanes for extra defense in a territory you captured during your turn.
• Having Allied forces reinforce Russian territories.

I would really like to hear some opinions on this method to see if it can be improved.

[A Former User]

Great idea.  Would like clarification on couple points;  1)  would seem returning aircraft can return to friendly carrier (maybe only if nothing else available), but cannot launch an attack from friendly carrier - no ammo.  2)  the attack and movement bonus (fighters, artillery, tanks) does not apply across to other friendly units.

[the_jetset]

@Carolina:

Great idea.  Would like clarification on couple points;  1)  would seem returning aircraft can return to friendly carrier (maybe only if nothing else available), but cannot launch an attack from friendly carrier - no ammo.  2)  the attack and movement bonus (fighters, artillery, tanks) does not apply across to other friendly units.

We only have one rule modification when combining forces:  “Transports cannot launch amphibious assaults with other forces loaded.  However, transports can load and unload friendly forces in non-combat moves.”

I can see where people might want to implement some additional limiting rules, especially aircraft carrier rules. … But we felt those were unnecessary given that both the Allied and Axis forces can receive combined arms bonuses therefore cancelling each other’s respective bonuses out.  Also, the case could in theory be made that friendly forces did combine arms on some occasions.  (Operation Market Garden used US paratroopers and Commonwealth forces together. … North Africa had German armored units together with Italian infantry etc …)   So in the end we chose a little simplicity and probably sacrificed some reality.

Also, the case could even be made for combining aircraft carrier planes.  US Avenger bombers where frequently used on British carriers.  … These where given as a lend-lease.

But your observation is exactly what I was hoping to see when I posted this!  Negating combined arms bonuses for friendly forces might be a great way to “separate” a friendly nation’s forces and dull some of the advantages … this could be great in North Africa and in the Pacific where USA, ANZAC and UK have to gang up on Japan.

I think we will give it a shot the next time my group plays … unfortunately this will be until May.   :|

edit:  In fact, the more I think about it, I think we are going to incorporate your idea into our house rules.  …  Our previous method made the Allies a little too powerful in the Pacific sometimes.

[Kreuzfeld]

@the_jetset:

Special Unit Rules

Combined Arms Modifiers  Idea from user Carolina

• Combined arms modifiers only apply for forces of the same nation.

Aircraft Carriers  Idea from user Carolina

• Aircraft carriers can only launch attacks with airplanes of the same nation.

• Aircraft carriers can launch and receive friendly aircraft during the Non-Combat move.

I am curious about this one. Why? with the old rules, the aircraft had much more movement than this. If you had UK planes on US CVs you could effectivly use the US planes to attack a terr 5 areas away (if the CV was on a fleetbase). So the planes on the CV is already nerfed. Why would you make themn “worse” ?

It might just make good sense from a game balance and gameyness perspective tho :)

@the_jetset:

Casualties and Occupation

• Axis and Allied forces that attack together randomly select casualties for the same unit type. (for instance, if there are 3 German and 2 Italian infantry and they decide that an infantry will be the 1st casualty, the Germans roll 3 dice and the Italians roll 2 dice.  Whoever has the higher sum takes the casualty.)  Any other “random” method may be used as well

• Country with the largest army remaining at the end of the battle takes control of the occupied territory.

This seems like a lot of extra dierolling. Could you not just say to make it “proportional”? If the goal is to have germany have 60% chance of taking the hit and the italians having 40% chance. . Then the best method would be to use a sinlge die roll. 1,2,3 = G take the hit, 4,5 = IT takes the hit. 6 = reroll.

with 5 german and 4 italians, you could can order the units in two rows. Row 1 has 5 germans and 1 italian, while row 2 has 3 italians. The first die decides which row to pic from. On a 1,2,3 pic from row 1, on a 4,5,6 pick from row 2. If you pick from row 1. Roll the other die, and kill a german on 1-5 and an italian on a 6. If you pick from row 2, you roll the other die, On a 1,2,3 you pick an italian, and on a 4-6 you pick noone and do the process from the beginning (i,e Reroll both dies). This is much faster to do if you roll both dies at the same time.

If you even want it simlpler, just take all the losses and agree on what the results of a single dieroll means. So if there are 20 italians and 50 germans and you have to take 17 casualties. Then 20units 17/70 = 4.86, while 5017/70 = 12.14. So you take 12 germans, 4 italians and roll a single die to have the italians take the 5th casualitie on a 1-5, while the germans takes it on the 6.

These are just a few fast and slow suggestions :)¨the rolling for every single hit gives the “perfect” distribution of probability.

@the_jetset:

/ / Analysis / /
On a strategic level this method of game play does the following:

• Enhances game balance.  Axis gain an advantage in the Eastern Front because Soviet controlled territories can no longer be reinforced by Allied Forces.  However, Allied forces gain a better advantage by being able to coordinate their attacks because there are more components that comprise the Allied forces.

I think you are off on a few of your analysis points.

I belive this game is massivly pro axis, and every single point you seem to mention is pro axis. This would not be good for gamebalance. However, I think your analysis of advantages is not entirely correct.

I belive this change will help the allies much more than it hurts them.
1)  One of the most poweful moves in the game (IMO) is the italian can-opener on the eastern front. It is the single thing that makes it very difficult to not lose the war in russia.  A huge german stack in rostow, with about 10 italian units will force the russian back to moscow. There are two paths to moscow from rostov. The russian can either stand on one of them and have enough units in the other to prevent an italian can-opener. This will mean that they will have at least 12 inf there and the german can send in 4 inf and luftwaffe and blead the red army dry every time the red army tries to do this. This means that the red army have to retreat to moscow and the middle-east, caucasus and stalingrad will be up for grabs.

2. this makes offensive coordination between the allied powers in the pacific much easier. I would guess this hurts japan quite a bit.

[the_jetset]

Hello Kreuzfeld.

Thanks for the comments and interest.

Here’s what I’ve found in the 6 or 7 games we’ve played so far with this method.

@Aircraft Carriers: Actually, the games we have played so far did not have restrictions on what friendly nations planes could be on what aircraft carrier.  For instance, ANZAC could launch and recover combat move aircraft from a UK or USA carrier.  Carolina made this suggestion and we are going to incorporate it into our “Axis & Allies & Comintern” House Rules the next time we play in early May.  The reasons are the following:

• Allies get a little too much of an advantage in the Pacific if they coordinate right.  ANZAC, being basically land-locked if Japan plays right and gets lucky, can just dedicate their IPC’s to pumping out Fighters and TAC’s …. This free’s USA up to just make CV’s and not worry so much about the planes.  …  Limiting CV’s to just being able to launch Combat Moves with their country’s plane balances this

• It could also be argued that having carriers launch attacks with their own country’s planes is more historically accurate.  For sure, USA planes were used on UK carriers.  And I wouldn’t be surprised if USA crews even manned some of the planes (that is a TOTAL guess though).  However, most of the time crews trained long hours with the country and navy that they were going to be flying for.  Therefore, the CAG’s were of the same nation as the CV from which they were operating on.

@Casualties:  Any basically “random” method can be used, including all of the one’s you mentioned.  I gave one example and also left it open to other methods that different groups prefer.

@Analysis & Advantage  I fully agree with you.  The GREATEST advantage to this system is for the Allied and Russian players for sure.  In fact, I think it makes for basically balanced game.  The 6 or 7 games we have played so far have had both Axis and Allied/Russian wins.  ….  Here are some additional things we have noticed:

• Like you mentioned, Italy/Germany Can Openers are eliminated on the Eastern Front, greatly helping the Russians.  This is SOMEWHAT mitigated by the new rule that doesn’t allow Allied Forces to step on Russian Controlled territories (and vice-versa) to reinforce Russia in the North … But the overall advantage definitely goes to Russia on this one

• It is easier for Italy and Germany to combine forces and hold the Med via Gibraltar.  UK –> USA won’t be able to do Can Openers there.  This lets Italy dig into Africa a little bit more.

• ANZAC doesn’t get side-showed as easy.  They can pump out subs, destroyers and maybe even the odd cruiser and incorporate them into the UK or USA fleets.  (historically accurate)

• I could go on and on … but basically, “It’s a whole new way at looking at the day.”  :-D